You know I thought about trying that but I figured it would be like trying to melt ice in 33 deg. water I I think I read somewhere it would only absorb like 3% at that low of a temp. I suspected it would work but take a long time to get there, always was able to get a fair supply of foundry, lino and mono so just never tried.
For those new to alloying tin and lead
Ian
Notorious member
I didn't mean to sound that way,, sorry. I had the idea that Sb would melt actually in wheelweight metal with a little tin added, don't know what I was thinking. Lots of sawdust and heat later that chunk finally sort of sublimated in, like one atom at a time, it was painfully slow and the "dissolving" surface looked nothing like I expected, it looked fractured and not smoothly melted on the part contacting the molten alloy. Things we learn, the hard way, eh? I do like to differentiate between adsorb and absorb for the edification of the lurker and random person who may be reading this thread, adsorption is the mechanism by which carbon (and as I understand it, molten borate glass as well) removes some of the impurities from our bullet metal.
fiver
Well-Known Member
build a pot stirrer.
add your tin first.
sprinkle the antimony on top.
then wet the surface just barely enough to get the alloy to contact the antimony.
hold the alloy temp down to 600-625 F
do very, very small amounts at a time and keep the surface of the alloy clean.
weigh what you put in the pot.
and don't be surprised if you end up scraping off a mess a time or two and starting over.
add your tin first.
sprinkle the antimony on top.
then wet the surface just barely enough to get the alloy to contact the antimony.
hold the alloy temp down to 600-625 F
do very, very small amounts at a time and keep the surface of the alloy clean.
weigh what you put in the pot.
and don't be surprised if you end up scraping off a mess a time or two and starting over.
If your stuck with it and you have access to an acetylene torch along with a good graphite smelting pot it can be done, As I stated in one of my previous posts it is a pain in the butt. And should only be done by someone that has been around the block as you would say. This produces toxic fumes so it must be at the very least be done outside, a respirator is recommended along with proper handling equipment. (A proper electric smelting oven makes this much easier but small capacity and cost put that out of my reach).
Make sure you can properly stabilize your pot!!! This is much hotter and more dangerous than lead and will set pretty much anything it hits on fire. Use a the very minimum Greens or FRC. Heat your antimony till it is melted completely, I use a long graphite rod to stir and check. With nice long tongs add your lead - don't go any more than 25-30% antimony to lead (more will not do you any good and will under most home brew conditions ruin the alloy) I would suggest 1lb antimony to 3lb pure lead. I used clay to flux this brew , it worked well (I didn't want more flames shooting everywhere torch was bad enough with rosebud) keep it hot till fully mixed. (again more toxic fumes) Very carefully pour you ingot in a STEEL mold - DO NOT USE any lee or lyman molds, most are alminum and this will blow through the mold in about 3 seconds, Do not water cool or set mold on wet surface - in fact keep water far far away from this process!!!! you now have a fully usable hardening agent. 25/75 or 30/70. I did the 30/70 and have had no issues using it as it will now melt at normal casting temps..... Let me stress again, this is not something a new caster should try in any way!!!!
Make sure you can properly stabilize your pot!!! This is much hotter and more dangerous than lead and will set pretty much anything it hits on fire. Use a the very minimum Greens or FRC. Heat your antimony till it is melted completely, I use a long graphite rod to stir and check. With nice long tongs add your lead - don't go any more than 25-30% antimony to lead (more will not do you any good and will under most home brew conditions ruin the alloy) I would suggest 1lb antimony to 3lb pure lead. I used clay to flux this brew , it worked well (I didn't want more flames shooting everywhere torch was bad enough with rosebud) keep it hot till fully mixed. (again more toxic fumes) Very carefully pour you ingot in a STEEL mold - DO NOT USE any lee or lyman molds, most are alminum and this will blow through the mold in about 3 seconds, Do not water cool or set mold on wet surface - in fact keep water far far away from this process!!!! you now have a fully usable hardening agent. 25/75 or 30/70. I did the 30/70 and have had no issues using it as it will now melt at normal casting temps..... Let me stress again, this is not something a new caster should try in any way!!!!
Alminum plants are so much cleaner that steel mills, I installed some robotic welding equipment in a place called Alcoa in Lafayette, Indiana a number of years back, was a nice plant, people were pretty good to work with.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
We manufacture, recycle and change chemistry on the base alloys that companies like Alcoa use.
We do the part of the job companies like Alcoa do not want. From trash we make 6061, 383 ,380,7075 etc. Base alloys. A lot of dross dust, metal dust physical labor and heat. Often times you are right up on the molten metal, like a less then an arms length.
So not as white gloved and way more hands on then the facility mentioned.
LOL
Give you an Idea of what I do, not too glamorous but its a living as they say....
I take samples from incoming Material. Melt down a puck- ingot for testing. Do recovery tests. Check raw material for water and oil content, dirt, iron filings and so forth. Then do a "chem" analysis on the puck. Give copies of that to the Metallurgist, and all the bosses. He makes up furnace load sheets.
i take samples from the furnaces and the pours as they are poring and tell the operators what changes need made to get and keep it in spec.
In the real world, often the premade Chemists furnace sheet can be off a bit.
When too many call off I also work the pit, pulling ingot from molds. We also have to hand skim the ingots.. At our stage of manufacture, it just can not be done effectively with a machine. So I am constantly playing with flame, fluxes, reductants and molten metal at work.
And in the lab and my personal melt area...Often with unknown material, and on a time limit..
So the "tinsel fairy" as you guys call it, visits me at least once a week, no mater how careful I am, you just learn to protect yourself, and get used to it. What is even more fun then that is the Mag fires. I have to deal with in my melt area, When someone puts the wrong stuff in the wrong truck or bin. I am the one who finds out first, God forbid it would get into one of the production furnaces. That would ruin a lot of peoples day.
We do the part of the job companies like Alcoa do not want. From trash we make 6061, 383 ,380,7075 etc. Base alloys. A lot of dross dust, metal dust physical labor and heat. Often times you are right up on the molten metal, like a less then an arms length.
So not as white gloved and way more hands on then the facility mentioned.
LOLGive you an Idea of what I do, not too glamorous but its a living as they say....
I take samples from incoming Material. Melt down a puck- ingot for testing. Do recovery tests. Check raw material for water and oil content, dirt, iron filings and so forth. Then do a "chem" analysis on the puck. Give copies of that to the Metallurgist, and all the bosses. He makes up furnace load sheets.
i take samples from the furnaces and the pours as they are poring and tell the operators what changes need made to get and keep it in spec.
In the real world, often the premade Chemists furnace sheet can be off a bit.
When too many call off I also work the pit, pulling ingot from molds. We also have to hand skim the ingots.. At our stage of manufacture, it just can not be done effectively with a machine. So I am constantly playing with flame, fluxes, reductants and molten metal at work.
And in the lab and my personal melt area...Often with unknown material, and on a time limit..
So the "tinsel fairy" as you guys call it, visits me at least once a week, no mater how careful I am, you just learn to protect yourself, and get used to it. What is even more fun then that is the Mag fires. I have to deal with in my melt area, When someone puts the wrong stuff in the wrong truck or bin. I am the one who finds out first, God forbid it would get into one of the production furnaces
. That would ruin a lot of peoples day.
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Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Yes I actually have a small ~.5 liter crucible. So able to do 10 lb of alloy.
And a torch set.
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Oh, I don't know little drama, occasional adrenaline rush, some sparks and flames, not such a bad gig....We manufacture, recycle and change chemistry on the base alloys that companies like Alcoa use.
We do the part of the job companies like Alcoa do not want. From trash we make 6061, 383 ,380,7075 etc. Base alloys. A lot of dross dust, metal dust physical labor and heat. Often times you are right up on the molten metal, like a less then an arms length.
So not as white gloved and way more hands on then the facility mentioned.
Give you an Idea of what I do, not too glamorous but its a living as they say....
I take samples from incoming Material. Melt down a puck- ingot for testing. Do recovery tests. Check raw material for water and oil content, dirt, iron filings and so forth. Then do a "chem" analysis on the puck. Give copies of that to the Metallurgist, and all the bosses. He makes up furnace load sheets.
i take samples from the furnaces and the pours as they are poring and tell the operators what changes need made to get and keep it in spec.
In the real world, often the premade Chemists furnace sheet can be off a bit.
When too many call off I also work the pit, pulling ingot from molds. We also have to hand skim the ingots.. At our stage of manufacture, it just can not be done effectively with a machine. So I am constantly playing with flame, fluxes, reductants and molten metal at work.
And in the lab and my personal melt area...Often with unknown material, and on a time limit..
So the "tinsel fairy" as you guys call it, visits me at least once a week, no mater how careful I am, you just learn to protect yourself, and get used to it. What is even more fun then that is the Mag fires. I have to deal with in my melt area, When someone puts the wrong stuff in the wrong truck or bin. I am the one who finds out first, God forbid it would get into one of the production furnaces
Take you time, follow the rules - no shortcuts and you'll do fine
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
*****Ye, I would not recommend this to a new caster, maybe we should have discussed this straight antimony thing on some PM's, between you and fiver, or a separate thread.. Well whats done, is done, as they say. I am only doing this because I basically live smelting, and I was dumb enough to buy the antimony before I did the research. I should know better..Yes I am an idiot.
But you for new guys, Or some of the older wiser, less adventurous ones.......To get antimony(SB),I would just recommend buying lino, hard- shot or super hard. It is not that expensive for the amount you will use, and you can buy it by a small amount with a slight mark up thru Amazon, Ebay etc..
That stuff (lino, hard-shot, or super hard.), and products like them melt in nicely. Why you may ask???They have Tin(SN), lead(PB) or both. So melting points average out, once an alloy is fully blended, meh...basically.
So the melting point and mix-ability of those carrier alloys, is closer to that of lead. And workable at a much safer,efficient, degree.
I am only doing this because I basically live smelting, and I was dumb enough to buy the antimony before I did the research. I should know better..Yes I am an idiot.But you for new guys, Or some of the older wiser, less adventurous ones.......To get antimony(SB),I would just recommend buying lino, hard- shot or super hard. It is not that expensive for the amount you will use, and you can buy it by a small amount with a slight mark up thru Amazon, Ebay etc..
That stuff (lino, hard-shot, or super hard.), and products like them melt in nicely. Why you may ask???They have Tin(SN), lead(PB) or both. So melting points average out, once an alloy is fully blended, meh...basically.
So the melting point and mix-ability of those carrier alloys, is closer to that of lead. And workable at a much safer,efficient, degree.
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Ya, That was my recommendation also, Me and 2 other buddys split cost of 60lbs of antimony (on sale) We did it over 3 sessions and swore not to do that again lol, We ran short on pure lead and instead of doing again I now still have a solid 5lb brick I poured to remind me lol,
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
My pistol and low node shooting outweighs my long distance rifle shooting. I am in my mid 50's. So for the amount I use or foresee using; $80 worth of super hard broke down into little lee 1/2 ingots, and a bag of hard shot.
That would probably have lasted me a life time.
DiDo on running short . Now I am looking at taking from my supply of pure to make my own super hard.
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well, Iike I said it is do-able and given your background you know the risks and safety procedures, since you only have a few pounds you can do it in 1 afternoon, its a learning experience, I'm a patriot, I believe in free speech and free flow of information, I believe in natural selection, I think all the warning labels should be removed from the plastic bags and hot coffee, I think they should bring back Jarts (those of you from generations past know what those were) and real electric fly swatters, If I myself fall prey to "stupid" then I guess I just didn't make the cut..... (I don't have any liberal friends either lol) so if you want to know how to do it and I have done it and remained in 1 piece I'll tell you.