Gas Checks... Oh, Rick!!!!

[358156 hp]

I've has a love/hate relationship with gas checks from the beginning. While they have their benefits, they do cost money. The extra handling annoys some, but it has never really bothered me. I'm rereading Todd Spottis article on Rick, and cast bullets in his Freedom arms again, and I have some questions on gaschecks, while aimed specifically to Rick, everybodys input is welcome and appreciated as always.

I always anneal my copper gaschecks, I didn't see annealing mentioned in the articles, have you ever found it beneficial?

I like your gascheck tool, and want to make one. do you have any specific measurements for yours, and are you tapping the too with a hammer, or how are you using it?

Have you experimented with aluminum gas checks vs copper crimp ons for accuracy & consistency?

Once again, I encourage others to add their questions and comments to this thread. For those of you who haven't seen these articles, I'm adding the links below.

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotFreedomArms357CastBullet.htm
http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotFreedomArms357CastBulletPT2.htm

 

[Brad]

I have annealed checks. Never did enough shooting to really see if it made a difference. I would expect that annealed checks would crimp on a little harder due to less spring back but is it enough to matter?

 

[gman]

I also anneal my checks. In my opinion I think they are a tighter fit after annealing due to less spring back.

 

[Rick]

I have made two types of check sizing tools, press mounted and the punch that I used a rubber hammer with. A custom punch in 357 is the one Todd referred to. Brad liked the idea of the press mounted check sizer and made his own and he made a huge improvement by simply turning it upside down. With Brad's tool the punch is in the ram and anvil screwed in the top of the press. Al at NOE liked Brad's concept enough that he is now offering the tool on his web site. Simply order by caliber.

If you decide to make the punch type I found the easiest way is to use a common center punch, they are tapered so just shorten the punch until the diameter is correct for the caliber and add a slight chamfer.

I annealed checks once and only once, what a PITA. I have no idea if annealing improves performance, it's supposed to make them easier to install but then so does sizing them to make them fit correctly in the first place and not loosing grip when sized/crimped on.

Have never tried an aluminum check, never seen any need to. In one of my more lucid times years back when checks were cheap (about $9/1000) I would add 3-4 boxes to every Midway order, did that with every order I placed just to have a solid supply. Over time I had 5-10 thousand checks for every caliber I cast for. I did the same with pure tin, Midway sold the tin in two one pound bars for around $11.00. At one time I must have had about 40 pounds. So nope, no aluminum checks.
.

 

[358156 hp]

I anneal my checks with a propane torch in a single layer in a shallow tin pan from the old LEE drive through sizer kits. After they cool I get a lot of charred coating from them, I don't know if Hornady lacquers them or what, but the coating doesn't seen to come off easily. I've tumbled them i walnut to remove it with mixed success for some reason. It was suggested to boil them in vinegar for a bit, then rinse & tumble in walnut, and that does work, but don't inhale the fumes from boiling vinegar! It's especially bad in the sinuses.

I have found that an annealed check seems to fit the bullets contours better than the non-annealed version. Mine usually end up looking like the bullet was cast in place. I've even seen the sprue area pretty clearly at times.

But like everybody else, I always want more.

 

[Brad]

I wonder how well a wet pin tumbler would work to remove the scale? Bet it would work pretty well.
I may try it in the spare time I misplaced somewhere around here.

 

[fiver]

the wet tumblers will remove scale from cooked brass and copper.
I use mine to remove the scale from annealed jackets and brass cases [both heat and torch annealed]
I combine it with citric acid when tumbling.

 

[358156 hp]

Excellent point! The last time I annealed checks was long before we ever heard of wet tumbling. I tend to anneal a few boxes in a sitting.

 

[Chris]

I prefer annealed checks and I think they make a difference in fit and accuracy. My low-work techniques is to dump the checks into a pipe nipple, cap it and toss it into a good bed of wood coals in the stove.

 

[fiver]

I was doing it Chris's way, except I put a slip of paper in the pipe bomb to suck up the oxygen and try to help prevent the scale.

 

[KHornet]

I have annealed, and frankly never saw any appreciable difference. However I am not
very Tech oriented, and don't pay a great deal of attention to such things.

Paul

 

[Reed]

I prefer annealed checks and I think they make a difference in fit and accuracy. My low-work techniques is to dump the checks into a pipe nipple, cap it and toss it into a good bed of wood coals in the stove.

I've done it that way, too, but last time I made a terrible mess of things. I used galvanized pipe, and I cooked them in my gas BBQ way to long, and way too hot. I ended up with a VERY hard crusty yellow scale on the gas checks, which I'm guessing was a reaction with the zinc??

 

[Rally Hess]

My daughter gave me a pizza oven like they use in bars. I cut my aluminum flashing in strips on a paper cutter and put them in the pizza oven for 11 minutes. Then make my checks. I can feel the difference in how much more pliable the cooked strips are. No idea how hot they get but there isn't any scale on them. Cooking time seems to make a difference. I started at 5 minutes and couldn't tell any difference. Ended up at 11 minutes cooking time.

 

[Kevin Stenberg]

Rally Hess That sounds like a good tip to me. Heating the pre-made checks in there strip form. Thanks
But would cutting and forming the checks work harden them?

 

[fiver]

working G/C material hardens it.
but some hardness is needed, it's like annealing your case necks.
they are okay in that soft state but generally are much more uniform after being sized and fired again.
I generally will anneal my case necks, then trim-size, then neck size them one more time to put a little work hardening on them.

 

[popper]

annealed copper GC work much better. Just annealed 150 308W cases, reloaded ~ 6 times - lost one case when expanding for cast.

 

[Rally Hess]

Kevin it seems to make the checks form much better for me. If it is work hardening them it helps in my case. Between Brads check tool and annealing the flashing I'm using, I now am producing cheap, well fitting checks, with the material not springing back , causing a loose check. I retrieved about 400 bullets from my "snow berm" this spring, the majority still had checks on them. Works for me and cheaper than copper.

 

[John]

I have annealed checks when I had a good shooting mold with tight checks or when trying to seat square checks on tapered bases. Most get shot as is.

 

[Paul Gauthier]

I have not annealed checks, I used to expand them with a ball bearing and a hammer to fit tight bases but even that is just too much work to put into a lowly check. Now I mostly shoot plain based unless the accuracy is better with a checked version of the same boolit.

 

[Eutectic]

I have ran fully annealed Hornady vs those out of the box against each other. They always fit better and crimp more secure annealed. .22 Hornet, my .25's and lower powered .30 and .32 shoot better groups with annealed checks. Faster .308, .30-06 when running higher pressures may not like annealed as well. Now .35 bullets use the same gascheck as a .38-.357. These are thinner material compared to 7mm or larger. Full power loads I may not anneal and usually don't. My 600 Remington .35 tends to like them annealed at full power. .357 and .44 is yes if I use a gascheck design. Annealed will give you a flatter more square bullet base. I fit the gascheck to the shank..... By this I may expand them slightly for a 'squeaky' thumb fit or even size them slightly for the couple of loose shank molds I like. I will lap the mold if I use a lot of what it casts if a check goes on loose from an undersized shank.

These days I do big batches now in a double capped pipe nipple I put in my propane casting furance. Don't used galvanized! A quarter sheet of toilet paper in the middle is a good idea. I dump mine when cool into a large pill bottle and cover them with white 5% vinegar.... Leave them a few hours, then flush with hot water. You will be quite surprised at the 'crap' that comes off! I cover them a second time and go a few more hours. I've even went overnight..... it doesn't hurt anything...... Flush again and spread on a paper towel until dry. They're as nice as out of the box now! I've got a 'wad' of.25's on paper towels drying as I write this.
I always anneal on hunting loads! I've had them mushroomed flat as a pancake with the gascheck still on.

Pete