Gear...

[358156hp]

(Not you, Ian)When I first started casting, the ladle was pretty much the only method available to a starving young guy wanting to cast bullets. There were a few bottom pour pots available, but they were terribly expensive, and in those pre-internet days, nobody knew where to find them anyway. I priced all sorts of different options, and ended up with LEE equipment, and most do when first starting out. I remember it well, a single cavity 158 gr GC mould, a LEE ladle, a LEE sizing kit (the old style one that required a hammer to drive the bullet through a sizing die, and one of those little LEE Precision Melter 3 lb pots. As I recall, it all set me back about $35.00 very hard earned dollars. Honestly, I'm amazed I didn't quit casting after the first week. It really was that bad.

Now, decades later I realize that the real weak point in my initial purchase was the crappy LEE ladle. They make great pot scrapers (I still have several), great skimmers, great stirrers, but they are not a real ladle by any stretch of the imagination. My resulting quality was terrible! Still, I was now a bullet caster! Enter MidwayUSA, simply known as "Midway" in those days. I managed to scrape together enough money for a new 2 cavity mould, essentially doubling production. Also purchased was a Lyman casting ladle, a real casting ladle. Things started looking up! The only issue with the ladle required some brainstorming. I'm left-handed. Ladles were not ambidextrous in those days. My solution involved drilling a hole in the opposite side of the ladle bowl, then running the handle through it and screwing it into the factory threads. It worked, and I now had a left-handed ladle.

I have to look back on the early days with great amusement. I gave up on LEE equipment because that early stuff didn't last very long with my then clumsy ways. I went through two Production Pot IVs, mostly because they leaked so badly (it's normal). Finally I bought a Lyman Mag-20, which I've had for maybe 20 years now. I never did get the hang of bottom pour, but I became a mean hand with a ladle. Then there were the Lyman sizers, a SAECO, and now a Star. I have moulds from every major, and not so major makers. And now I'm working on collecting the pieces to add a PID to my Mag-20. Mine will be set up slightly different than most, I'll do a write up on it when all the pieces finally arrive. And every day I learn something new. Whats your story?

 

[Ian]

Well, you got my attention anyway!

I cast and shot about a zillion bullets for my .38 Special using nothing but a shallow cast iron 2 quart pot, a stainless-steel au jus ladle with a 'spout' crimped in the edge with a pair of pliers, and the gas burner of the range in my travel trailer. That's how a starving engineering student kept sane. Fortunately, the vent-hood was very effective at removing fumes or I might have had health troubles. It was so hot on the Texas coast that I had to strip to my underwear and wear a sweatband and cast at two in the morning to be able to stand it (yes, I wore a long leather apron and riding boots to keep the lead splashes off of the more important anatomical portions). Those were the days, I had a mould that fit my revolver, room to mount a single stage press, and my run of the chem lab to calibrate my powder dippers and fool with trying to improve Lee's liquid Alox. No bottle cap at the local dump was safe, and rabbit stew or dumplings was common fare for me on the weekends.

Later, when I had property and a place to build a shop, I "upgraded" to a Lee Pro 4-20 bottom pour which I still use for most things. It works fine. I use a #2 Rowel ladle for serious casting of rifles bullets at times, but the set up time and propane used, not to mention being at the mercy of the weather, limits these endeavors. Now I have a dedicated indoor casting setup in my gun room, complete with remote ventilation fan, steel exhaust plumbing, and a comfy casting setup where I can sit. Upgrades include a mould oven (hot plate with steel box on top) for preheating heavy, multi-cavity moulds or parking them while taking brief breaks during marathon casting sessions, and good, multi-angle lighting.

I went the PID route, but after my SSR burned up the first time I never replaced it. I learned what I needed to know and just use a Tel-Tru lead thermometer. A temperature probe on the mould is something I've found very handy when doing precision work, but not entirely necessary once you get the hang of reading the signs.

Bullet casting is a primitive art even in its most advanced state, and I prefer to look at it that way. Master the art, learn to use a master's tools, understand the process, and many of the gizmos and accessories become superfluous. Not that there's anything wrong with using digital technology to control casting conditions, it just depends on your personal approach to the hobby and what gets you the results you seek.

 

[358156hp]

Quite right, there's a factor of instinct or perhaps intuition that's the final procedure anyway. Everything else is means to an end.

 

[Brad]

I went from a bottom pour to using a ladle. The ladle was pushed by Rick and 358156 hp and boy were they right. Bullet quality went up.

It isn't the tools, it is learning to make them work. There isn't a set recipe for success despite what some think.

 

[358156hp]

There's definitely a "feel" involved. I once tried to explain to somebody elsewhere how to watch the sprue change colors to get an idea of how quickly the alloy in the mould was freezing. This is also an indication of mould temp, but sprue plate temps seem to be higher than the actual mould temps. I've never tried to validate this thought. Anyway, I told the guy that I usually see at least three color changes, but others have claimed to see up to five. He thought I was nuts, he could see the sprue go from silver straight to gray. I never did hear much from him again.

 

[Brad]

Ah, the art of bullet casting. Sometimes it just takes time to really get the feel for things.
I love it when things just come together and I have an "a ha" moment. Those lessons are never forgotten.

 

[freebullet]

I started with a lee 10 lbs bottom pour. Still have it in addition to a 20.

I did pick up a Rowell no2 ladle as recommended. I will be using it soon.

I think my biggest problems come from the wild temp swings the lee pots produce. When I can keep the temp stable I get consistent bullets. For now I just take a break and let the Temps moderate. I will eventually build a pid.

 

[358156hp]

The controller for my PID showed up Saturday, along with one of the thermocouples, but the rest is still in transit. I plan on trying something a little different on mine. I found a really short probe thermocouple that I plan to install in the bottom of the pot, extending through a hole I'll locate opposite the bottom pour spout. Conventional wisdom has always been to not let the thermocouple touch the pot itself, but I wonder if this need has been overstated. Installing mine this way would keep the top of the pot uncluttered to allow for ladle casting while still retaining the bottom pour feature if I ever desire to use it. We'll see how it works.

 

[Rick]

Never heard of not letting the probe touch the pot. On my Magma the probe is attached on the outside of the pot, it has a nut welded to the center bottom and a short bolt screws into the nut holding the probe in place. Very convenient with nothing inside the pot to be in the way. It also works very well so I don't know where not touching the pot would come from.

 

[358156hp]

It was stressed on another board at one point. I decided to go my own way because the factory bimetal thermostats thermocouple is mounted to the outside of the pot, which indicates to me that once everything is up to temp, it'll all be almost exactly the same temp anyway. The thermocouple I purchased should work just fine protruding through a hole drilled in the bottom of the pot, as far away from the heating element as is possible. I'll use copper sealing washers on both the inside and outside of the pot, and a metal nose-crimp style locking nut on the inside. This style of sealing holds up to high pressure diesel fuel injection, and should work here as well.

 

[Brad]

I have been happy with my PID so far. It works well on my pot but really shines on the heat treating oven. Being able to go back to a very specific temp for heat treating and having confidence it is that same temp is huge.

What I really want to do now is step up to a larger pot. Something in the 40 pound range would be nice.

 

[358156hp]

Like this? http://www.hensleygibbs.com/TCD/articles/castingpot.htm

 

[Ian]

A good Dutch oven the appropriate size holds 40 lbs. Just sayin'.

 

[Brad]

Yes, but how to heat it. The idea of going all Mike and sitting with a turkey fryer and Dutch oven of lead between my knees doesn't appeal to me much.
Now a nice 40 pound magma pot dedicated to ladle casting, that appeals to me.

 

[Ian]

Awww, come on, some of us enjoy having 100,000 BTU of open flame blasting between our legs, makes us feel ALIVE! (especially when the bottom of the oven cracks wide open).

 

[Brad]

If I want to feel alive I can find other ways of doing so. I have no desire to fill my own prescription for Silvadene.

 

[freebullet]

I know a pot sitting on a fire pit will melt lead. First time I've seen someone cast boolits as a child was over wood coals. I will admit to pouring round balls over a camp fire for the next days hunt.

I plan on using a 50,000 btu propane burner I have for laddle casting. It differs from a turkey fryer, the burner produces a gentle flame instead of a jet flame. It takes longer to melt with but it's pleasant to be near.

I tried the rowell2 over the lee 20 and it's just not big enough. A 40 lbs bottom pour would be great. You could do the high production plinker from the bottom pour and ladle the rifle boolits from the same electric pot.

 

[Rick]

What I really want to do now is step up to a larger pot. Something in the 40 pound range would be nice.

You haven't lived until you have 40 pounds of identical alloy in front you.

 

[Brad]

You haven't lived until you have 40 pounds of identical alloy in front you.

I know! Where do you think I got the idea?

 

[Steel13]

My first cast bullet was cast from a cast iron ash tray over a burner of my BBQ grill. I upgraded to a turkey fryer and a Dutch oven quickly after that. I dip cast from that oven for almost a year until the bottom of the pot gave way and showered the garage floor with 20#'s of lead WW. I then got a little Lee 10# bottom pour and never gone back to dip casting except for heavy bullets in multi cavity aluminum molds. I now run an RCBS pro pot and I have loved it. I've upgraded my melting pot as well.