Getting a new cc pistol...

[BBerguson]

Where to start with this... Forgive me, this is long with a lot of parts.

I currently have been carrying a Glock 30 SF which is 45 automatic. I have never shot it as well as I would like and decided to do something different. My “different” is to shoot left handed. I am right handed but very left eye dominant and since I was 12 I have shot rifles, shotgun and bow left handed. With pistol I always shot right handed but with my left eye. It works from a bench, off my knees and I could make it work with most pistols off hand. The Glock 30 I could not shoot it satisfactorily at all off hand, especially getting it up on target quickly. Try it sometime with either hand and opposite eye. It takes longer to get the gun in position and then you have to line up the sights. Anyways, the Glock was much harder for me and I still didn’t shoot it well. In fact every pistol I shoot will hit high left for me so when I sight them in for me nobody else can hit anything with my guns. So I tried to shoot it left handed...

If you’ve every handled a Glock, notice how much the mag release protrudes and how sharp it is. Now grip it left handed and notice how it cuts into your middle finger. This is manageable in one of the 9mm Glocks but not in short framed 45auto. Talk about causing a flinch. It didn’t actually cut me but certainly felt that way. I think I got about 15 rounds through it and gave up. It’s just way too painful.

Before I go any farther let me say that I shot 4 or 5 of my other handguns left handed and felt it was very successful and I’m determined to always shoot pistol that way.

So, on to the new cc pistol... My son, just turned 18, ended up with 2 40S&W from a great uncle. One he likes, the other, a Springfield XD40 subcompact, he absolutely hates. And lucky me, I shot it (Left handed) and kind of fell in love with it. It will be my new carry gun and I’m selling the Glock 30 and giving the money to him so be can have a 1911 that he fell in love with. A true win win for us!

I’ve been siting on about 1,500 pieces of 40S&W brass that I was positive I was never going to reload and almost gave it away several times. Glad I didn’t... I have some in the tumbler right now, a mold and sizer are on order and I need to get an order into Dillon for dies and shellplate for the 40/10mm. I have a 550 I’ll be loading it on.

There, my new cc pistol story, sorry it was long. (This gun was literally new when my son got it, I don’t think it had a full mag through it. The other one, S&W M&P40 is in the same condition)

Bryan

 

[CZ93X62]

I have a Glock 29 (10mm). Fun, but a handful with higher-end loads. I am not a huge fan of the Glock small-size offerings, but LOVE the mid-size and full-size models. They have enough grip on them to make them steerable.

Of the 3 most-used service calibers--9 x 19, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP--I think the 40 S&W has the sharpest recoil. In terms of goblin-stopping, the 40 S&W gives up nothing to the 45 ACP. My old agency authorizes all 3 calibers, in over 300 make & model variants. 40 S&W is by some distance the consensus favorite, with 45 ACP as second choice; ratio is about 2/1. Few if any line personnel carry the 9mm as a primary sidearm, owing largely to the weak-sistered ammunition authorized for that caliber.

 

[462]

Bryan,
I have to laugh.
I'm left-handed and right eye dominate, shoot right-handed, and my carry pistol is a Glock 27, .40 S&W. My son-in-law is right-handed and left eye dominate shoots left-handed, and his carry pistols are 3" and 4" Springfield XD-40s. We both like our choices, though several times I've seriously considered the Glock 30, but the 27 is about 1/2" smaller all the way round and less visible on my frame. My hand ever so very, very slightly prefers the Springfield, but Glock'sBlue Label pricing was the deciding factor. We both found the S&W 40SHIELD's grip frame too thin.

Seems you will like the Springfield.
Michael

 

[BBerguson]

I have a friend in law enforcement and I think they all carry 9mm. They feel it’s easier to keep on target for follow up shots and that the 9mm is adequate. I can’t really argue with him, I’ll put up my 22rf revolvers against any 9mm and up for hitting my target and agree the smaller calibers are usually easier to shoot for most people.

I’m comfortable knowing the ballistics of all 3 and how they match up. I have a Kahr PM9 that gives me that added level of comfort that I have a gun. It’s only 5 shots of 9mm but I shoot it well and it’s so much better than nothing. Was walking on a dirt road when my son was 5 and had to draw it on a St. Bernard that came charging at us out of the bushes. My red line was the ditch and he stopped just short of it. If he got to the road we were going to find out if 5 rounds of 9mm would stop a big dog. Glad I didn’t have to find out but it really shook me up. I carry that in the summer when I can’t cover anything up. Otherwise, I want more... I think I’m going to be really happy with the 40S&W.

Bryan

 

[BBerguson]

Bryan,
I have to laugh.
I'm left-handed and right eye dominate, shoot right-handed, and my carry pistol is a Glock 27, .40 S&W. My son-in-law is right-handed and left eye dominate shoots left-handed, and his carry pistols are 3" and 4" Springfield XD-40s. We both like our choices, though several times I've seriously considered the Glock 30, but the 27 is about 1/2" smaller all the way round and less visible on my frame. My hand ever so very, very slightly prefers the Springfield, but Glock'sBlue Label pricing was the deciding factor. We both found the S&W 40SHIELD's grip frame too thin.

Seems you will like the Springfield.
Michael

Michael,

That’s pretty funny! Did either of you ever shoot with your dominate hand? Wondering if you did, would your groups be high right like mine are high left? With that said, I wouldn’t recommend shooting the Glocks left handed, it will hurt!

I’m not sure I ever would have changed if I shot the Glock 30 better. Probably not, I’ve been doing this for 34 years...

I was just looking and the S&W Shields, they are too thin for me too and I have medium hands. Yes, the Springfield is very comfortable to grip and controllable to shoot. I think I’m going to like it a lot. And to top it off, I have a new cartridge to reload, life is good!

Bryan

 

[462]

Bryan,
A very large right-eye floater matrix had my learning to shoot both handgun and rifle left-handed, though it may have been before I bought the Glock. By covering the right eyeglass lens my left eye was then able to do the focusing. But, without covering the lens the right eye wanted to do the focusing and my brain would get more confused than what it normally is.
If group placement changed it wasn't noticeable.
Eventually, a new eyeglass prescription sharpened images and I was able to resume shooting right-handed. However, the floater matrix is still there, and I have to wait for it to drift to one side or the other before I can concentrate on the sight picture. Imagine a constant shadow that almost fills your field of vision and is always moving in the direction opposite of your eye movement, and that that eye's vision is distorted as if you are looking through a layer of Saran Wrap.

Michael,

That’s pretty funny! Did either of you ever shoot with your dominate hand? Wondering if you did, would your groups be high right like mine are high left? With that said, I wouldn’t recommend shooting the Glocks left handed, it will hurt!

I’m not sure I ever would have changed if I shot the Glock 30 better. Probably not, I’ve been doing this for 34 years...

I was just looking and the S&W Shields, they are too thin for me too and I have medium hands. Yes, the Springfield is very comfortable to grip and controllable to shoot. I think I’m going to like it a lot. And to top it off, I have a new cartridge to reload, life is good!

Bryan

 

[RBHarter]

Most of 20 yr ago I had to teach myself to shoot on the right side .... Yep left eyed right handed . I'd always shot lefty so it's no big deal because of dexterity I always shot pistols right handed left eyed . I worked some side profile shooting left handed and it didn't seem any more or less difficult than 2 fisted Weaver or head on one hand . Forget it with a DA revolver .

The G26 isn't bad or at least I don't recall it biting lefty . The HP-9 doesn't care but I have trouble with getting back to POA with DT .

The XD40 2.5" ......... I just fell into it . I don't know if it's set up special or if there's some sort dark magic at work but it just clicks and works . Weird gun in the sense that I change bullets and it doesn't care even a little . It shot exactly the same with a 401-175 Lee TLTC as a 403-175 LBT RNFP and is pending an RCBS 40-170 RNFP . They run 980 fps with the max load of Unique into 2.5" at 25 yd with me driving 2 handed . The 145 & 165 factory is a little snappy but the full short 175s don't seem to be .
The action pulls me down back on target almost like a long slide 1911 . Of the autos I've shot and there cartridges this one is probably about the best yet .

As for changing hands its doable but lefty holsters are hard to come by in not plastic . (Says the guy with a Colts Dragoon in a left side cross draw .......)

 

[Rick H]

I am left handed and right eye dominant. Shoot Left handed and never noticed a difference in point of impact when changing hands. I am not large, have medium hands and just don't see how anyone who shot a medium framed 4" .357 magnum with full house magnum loads could ever believe the 40S&W has sharp recoil.
I carry a Shield 40, with 180 gr. JHPs and like the thin grip because it is easier to carry and conceal. I don't find it hard to shoot or control. I am comfortable with having 8 rounds to solve whatever problem I am faced with before the need to reload.

I have never had any use for the 9mm.

I think it is wonderful thing that we have so many choices available to us. What works for me may be entirely wrong for someone else.

 

[Winelover]

I'm a southpaw and it is the determining factor for my choice in pistols, in a right handed world. I carry all day long, usually a five shot revolver in 38, 357 or 44 Special. I do have semi autos, for carry, but they are sub compacts. None of which have manual safeties. I prefer to avoid slide releases. Beretta Nano and Kahr CM9, fill that niche. Both chambered in 9 mm. I gain two or three shots, over the five shot revolver for just a couple more ounces in carry weight. I prefer the revolver, around the property, easier to load the first round up with snake shot.

Nowadays, most semi autos, the mag release is reversible but I leave them set for right handed folk. Years ago, I learned to cope with the non reversible one, on my Browning HP. So It's become second nature to me to manipulate my grip when changing magazines.

I do own a XD- Model 2 Sub compact chambered in 9 mm. It's a very shootable handgun but is too large for everyday carry. IMO, double stacks disadvantage is the excess weight.

 

[358156 hp]

Interesting observations! I'm LH/RT Eye as well. I tried very hard to adapt to Glocks, and have had a total of twelve of them, and they're all gone now. My most "natural" pistol is the 1911, and because of that I follow the 1911 grip angle for semi-autos. M current CCW pistol is a Gen 1 S&W M&P Compact in 9mm, my particular M&P is extremely late production and has practically none of the Gen 1 "bugs", except for the trigger pull. I have an Apex full action kit waiting to be installed in it whe I get up the ambition to do so. The FN FNS & 509 platform also works well for me, but the SIG P320 is probably going to eclipse the FNs. My RH skills aren't as developed as my LH shooting is, and my RH groups tend to string horizontally. The RH problem is that I'm really, really, slow RH, even though I continue to use the RT eye and don't cross back over as I have seen a few people do, and I still don't understand how or why they do it. I know the solution for my situation is simply to shoot more, but this virus BS has made me lazy and slothful. Until this blows over a bit more, its difficult for me to self motivate when the rest of the world is moving in slow motion.

 

[popper]

Love my 40s, 165gr TC feeds in everything. XDs9 works good but a little larger and heavier than P938 which I tried my 135gr cast in the other day, worked fine. CD ammo aint cheap! I always practice either hand cause you never know what you need.

 

[CZ93X62]

The 40 S&W seems like "sharp recoil" when your experience includes either ZERO SHOOTING--9 x 19--or only 38 Specials in 357 Magnum wheelguns. That demographic sums up the majority of the academy students at our old shop. My sister is a administrator at the community college that certifies our academy, and their data shows that about half of the academy students arrive having not fired a firearm AT ALL prior to entering the academy. Hard to believe. Sis and I both grew up shooting and hunting, so that whole idea is pretty foreign to us and to the members here. People live all kinds of different ways, I suppose.

 

[358156 hp]

I foolishly sold a first-year Colt Defender in 40 S&W some years back. I never felt its recoil was very objectionable at all.

 

[popper]

For me it's the higher torque of the 40, recoil feels the same.

 

[Ian]

The .40's recoil causes stinging numbness and redness in my hands that lasts for an hour or more. Full-size M&P, Kahr .40, and Glock are my only references and they all hurt me the same. 4" Model 19 with factory 125 JHPs is a cream puff to me by comparison.

I'm left/left fortunately and prefer a 1911 or Airlite .38 for get-off-me duty. Never could cotton to the compact plastic autos, they're all bricks, even the single-stack ones. The Glock magazine release can be modified or replaced to better suit southpaws.

 

[CZ93X62]

Very subjective, this recoil response/reaction. Ian makes a good point with his text about the K-frame 357s and 125 grain bullets and how much easier it seems to be to manage. The answer there is that when double-action-fired, the 357 recoils only once and does so at the time the grip hand is tensed with the double-action trigger stroke at the point where the sidearm pivots in recoil. With an autopistol, there are 3 recoil impulses--ignition, slide slamming back, and slide slamming forward. This occurs above the pistol's balance/pivot point in the user's hand, and learning to "ride" the recoil impulse with an autopistol is the principal reason my shop required a 500-shot 2-day training cycle during the times we were swapping the rollers for the sliders.

After a lifetime spent shooting and hunting with handguns--and a career spent training people that went in harm's way and assessing the outcomes of many of the shootings my shop got involved in.......my thoughts are that our old wheelguns were not the telling disadvantage I thought they were (especially if carried in a serious caliber like 357 Magnum), and the autopistols are not the decisive advantage I considered them to be. Autopistols DEMAND that a user "stay current" with the reloading and stoppage regimens to exploit those advantages, and if you are not willing to shoot and practice with that slider at least once a month--you might be better-served to carry a wheelgun. The "muscle memory" to effectively run a revolver is retained better than that of the autopistol, which is why revolvers persisted for so long in the holsters of American law officers.

 

[Rick H]

Interesting point CZ93x62. My agency went through a 600rd. transition course when we moved from wheelguns to glocks (wheelguns were standard issue S&W Model 19 and Model 66's although we were allowed to carry others if we could qualify with them). I always felt autoloaders spread the recoil out over a longer time, compared to the wheel gun. Our biggest problem, during transition, was not recoil. It was fail to function with limp wrists (no that is not a sexual orientation joke).

Perhaps I am just not seeing it. Once a quarter I insisted on qualifying with my carry ammo....instead of the 38 wadcutters. I carried 158 Remington JHP's and then WW140 Silvertips. Our qualification course was 90 rds. That hammering left my shooting hand sore and numb after each qualification with full house magnum loads. I never used the 125gr. magnums. My issued Glock 23 never hurt me that bad, nor my Sig P220 in 45acp. I have no problem putting a hundred rounds or more downrange with the Shield 40 in an outing.

 

[Missionary]

The first handgun I shot a lot was the Colt made 1911A1 at FT Hood TX. I did not think of it as a big recoil. Later discovered the recoil in a Ruger BH 45 Colt with 300 grain Toyota Stompers.
So when someone says a 45 ACP is difficult to control I have to think they sure have been sheltered from shooting.

 

[CZ93X62]

I think recoil perception and response is too subjective a subject to attach hard & fast "rules' to. People like what they like, and dislike what they don't. The 45 ACP/1911A1 pistol had a reputation for being hard to master, according to some writers. I didn't find that to be the case, but comparing my Gold Cup to my S&W Model 625 firing the same ammunition? Neither is "difficult", but the revolver's recoil is more docile (subjectively). We all have biases and preferences.

 

[RBHarter]

I suspect that recoil in hand guns is very much like long guns Dad's M12 is nice with most of what we ever shot but the 1957 is very willing to let you know that super speed trap and quail went bang .