Getting back in the 32 caliber game
- Thread starter Petrol & Powder
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Back when the 32 H&R Mag came out, I thought it was the pinnacle of the straight-walled, rimmed 32 revolver cartridges. And I still think that I was right.
The 327 Federal takes that 30-caliber bullet to new speeds but I’m pretty sure I don’t want to play in that sandbox.
I understand the concept of things like the 327 Federal, 30 Carbine, 7.62 Tokarev and other hot little 30 caliber cartridges – And I will not disparage them. There’s a lot of usefulness there and some really cool history. It’s just not for me.
So, no hate. I just travel on a different path.
The 327 Federal takes that 30-caliber bullet to new speeds but I’m pretty sure I don’t want to play in that sandbox.
I understand the concept of things like the 327 Federal, 30 Carbine, 7.62 Tokarev and other hot little 30 caliber cartridges – And I will not disparage them. There’s a lot of usefulness there and some really cool history. It’s just not for me.
So, no hate. I just travel on a different path.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
The 32 S&W is one of the few 30/32 caliber handgun rounds I don't reload.
Again, this is not about self-defense--the 30/32 handguns are all about fun and hunting for me. DANG, they are accurate! My most accurate centerfire revolver EVER has been my S&W Model 16-4 x 6" in 32 H&R Magnum.
Again, this is not about self-defense--the 30/32 handguns are all about fun and hunting for me. DANG, they are accurate! My most accurate centerfire revolver EVER has been my S&W Model 16-4 x 6" in 32 H&R Magnum.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Awright, y'all--you pushed a major "Hobby button" for me in the casting reloading venues--my Mid-Caliber Madness.
The positives--light recoil (though very loud as pressures increase), accurate, a pound of lead and powder go a long way in these mid-bores.
The negatives--some might say that the mid-calibers are lacking in "stopping power" (whatever that is) in social encounters of the armed kind.
There is some truth to that, though I have yet to see ANY gunshot wound do anyone or anything one bit of "intrinsic good". Still, one has to wonder why the mid-caliber handguns and calibers fell from favor roughly at the time WWII was over. Two factors account for most of this change in mindset.
1) Prior to the development of modern antibiotics, even a gunshot wound that wasn't in and of itself fatal could still produce death in a lingering and horrifying manner via sepsis and infection. This was common knowledge among the population at large, and the display of a firearm could more easily dissuade goblin(s) from pressing an attack.
Modern antibiotics are a wonderful development, but there are unintended secondary consequences of their presence in society. Bear with me here.
2) At about the same time modern antibiotics came into general use, an unrelated social development was coming on stream. That stream was a steady departure from the centuries-old "Law of Flight"--if you flee, you will be fired upon. These two factors acting in concert have made our world a far more dangerous place to live. Not only are gunshot wounds potentially more survivable, but the only people that cops or citizens engage with gunfire are assailants attacking us in close quarters. Such an assailant is often pre-anaesthetized via street pharmaceuticals, as well. Low-powered calibers like the 32 SWL or 32 S&W really have no place in such circumstances. In the big scheme of things, such calibers are little more than marking pellets. My smallest and least powerful arms street-carried today are a 9mm Makarov pistol or a S&W Model 642 38 Special, and I greatly prefer something larger.
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
The positives--light recoil (though very loud as pressures increase), accurate, a pound of lead and powder go a long way in these mid-bores.
The negatives--some might say that the mid-calibers are lacking in "stopping power" (whatever that is) in social encounters of the armed kind.
There is some truth to that, though I have yet to see ANY gunshot wound do anyone or anything one bit of "intrinsic good". Still, one has to wonder why the mid-caliber handguns and calibers fell from favor roughly at the time WWII was over. Two factors account for most of this change in mindset.
1) Prior to the development of modern antibiotics, even a gunshot wound that wasn't in and of itself fatal could still produce death in a lingering and horrifying manner via sepsis and infection. This was common knowledge among the population at large, and the display of a firearm could more easily dissuade goblin(s) from pressing an attack.
Modern antibiotics are a wonderful development, but there are unintended secondary consequences of their presence in society. Bear with me here.
2) At about the same time modern antibiotics came into general use, an unrelated social development was coming on stream. That stream was a steady departure from the centuries-old "Law of Flight"--if you flee, you will be fired upon. These two factors acting in concert have made our world a far more dangerous place to live. Not only are gunshot wounds potentially more survivable, but the only people that cops or citizens engage with gunfire are assailants attacking us in close quarters. Such an assailant is often pre-anaesthetized via street pharmaceuticals, as well. Low-powered calibers like the 32 SWL or 32 S&W really have no place in such circumstances. In the big scheme of things, such calibers are little more than marking pellets. My smallest and least powerful arms street-carried today are a 9mm Makarov pistol or a S&W Model 642 38 Special, and I greatly prefer something larger.
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
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oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
I LOVE 32s! Got lucky on a PP from a buddy - stole it really. Don't load for that one. Then a pair of 32Ls - A Colt Police Positive and S&W Regulation Police (the Smith has a semi-sewer pipe bore) - but even the sewer pipe works well with the Lee TL 98 grn! Love these two revolvers. Then there are the S&W "Winchester Model"/32-20 M&P and the Colt Police Positive Special! Oh, and wife got her Dad's H&R 32 Mag. I WISH I still has the Ruger Single Six 32 Mag! Still looking to replace it without selling a kidney.
Oh, then there is also the pre-64 Win 94 in 32 WS! and a Browning 53 in 32-20. And if I could find a Marlin in 32 Mag that they didn't want a kidney or two for.... And a Smith Model 31 snubby in 32L!!!!
Yeah, I really like handguns in 32, and rifles! Same with 44 handguns and 358 rifles!
Oh, then there is also the pre-64 Win 94 in 32 WS! and a Browning 53 in 32-20. And if I could find a Marlin in 32 Mag that they didn't want a kidney or two for.... And a Smith Model 31 snubby in 32L!!!!
Yeah, I really like handguns in 32, and rifles! Same with 44 handguns and 358 rifles!
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oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
"The negatives--some might say that the mid-calibers are lacking in "stopping power" (whatever that is) in social encounters of the armed kind"
Eh - humbug! They sure seemed to work well in the early 1900's!
Eh - humbug! They sure seemed to work well in the early 1900's!
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
32’s are made for killing but not for “stopping “. What is your game plan?
I haven't played with the 32 S&W short round but have played with the 32 ACP in a Walther PP (no longer have) and the 32 S&W long in a model 31. In the 32 H&R magnum I use to have a 4 inch model 16. I didn't particularly care for the weight of it with the full under lug barrel and so it went. I should have of course kept it. Currently in 32 H&R magnum there's a Ruger Single Six and a S&W 631 Kit Gun. The Kit Gun Is my newest 32. The 327 Federal is in a Ruger Blackhawk. It does have a pretty good crack when fired but it currently is shooting a 125 grain bullet around 1200 fps so not quite as bad as the lighter bullet weight factory round. In 32-20 there's a S&W 1905 and a Browning 53 lever rifle. My moulds run from low 90 grains to around 130 grains mostly SWC's but three or four wadcutter moulds and a few round nose moulds. Back when I had my French PP in 32 ACP I wasn't casting so bought bullets from a shop in Miami. I used to run 98 grain round nose bullets in the Walther PP. I don't remember where I ended up getting reloading data for the 98 grain bullets in the 32 ACP. It might have been from GUNS AND AMMO magazine as there was a flood of French Walther PP's at the time for around a hundred bucks. I think the magazine did an article on the surplus pistols and had some reloading data in it. Killing and stopping powers a relative thing. Grouse shot with Hi Speed 22 L.R. loads do on occasion fly off if hit a bit low. They don't fly off with the same hit with a 32 wad cutter at pop gun velocities. Not really the discussion but more of an observation. I've always liked the little 30 caliber pistols. It's the most un American thing about me. With the shortage and price of 22 rounds during the latest and greatest panic they make even more sense and are even more fun.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
On targets going away (as marking pellets) and via sepsis, as above. Add in the advances in wound care over the past 125 years. Define "Work well".
Imagine the uproar that would ensue if someone was to hunt deer with a 32 ACP pistol or a 32 SWL revolver. SCANDALOUS, and deer generally don't attack/injure/kill humans. But it is 'acceptable' to defend one's life with a 32 SWL? Both quarries are thin-skinned warm-blooded mammals weighing 100#-300#. Logic is somewhat lacking here.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that's true.
They may have been USED a lot, but that doesn't mean they worked well.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
The comments by David s remind me of the late 1980's. You could pick up a Walther PP chambered in 32 ACP wayyyy cheaper than the same gun in 380 Auto. (like 50% cheaper). Of course I didn't do that because everyone wanted the 380 in those days.... (hindsight is near perfect)
I remember when Seecamp pistols came out and there was a waiting list to get one. That was probably the turning point for the 32 ACP in the U.S.A. It's been mentioned here before but the 32 ACP (7.65 Browning short) remained popular in Europe and was loaded to its full potential in that market.
In America, the 32 ACP suffered a poor reputation, partially due to weak loadings and partially due to the general poor perception of the cartridge.
I remember when Seecamp pistols came out and there was a waiting list to get one. That was probably the turning point for the 32 ACP in the U.S.A. It's been mentioned here before but the 32 ACP (7.65 Browning short) remained popular in Europe and was loaded to its full potential in that market.
In America, the 32 ACP suffered a poor reputation, partially due to weak loadings and partially due to the general poor perception of the cartridge.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I read a lot of shooting history and think the time line was in the mid-1950's. Before that more that one million .32 ACP pistols were made in the US and written about pretty fairly. But in the '50's when gun magazines came out, everything became "big bore" heavy calibers and more velocity. If you are not looking for drugs, gambling or sex, you are pretty safe in the US. I have not fired a single round in self defense in 51 years, or pointed a gun at anyone in 50. But I would guess about 200,000 rounds fired for fun. And the 32's a really fun to shoot (except picking up ACP brass).
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oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
Let me clarify - my comment was that the 32 was (according to my understanding) a well used/relied upon self defense round and gun(s). Certainly wouldn't be MY first choice, but, if it was what I had, I would def use it.
And it was way before the magnum craze.
Don't want to start a pissing contest. But back in the day, the 32 (again, as I understand it) was used. And things aren't what they used to be. I get that. But, if someone comes in, and gets shot at with a 32, chances are, unless they are hardened, they will leave, maybe also leaving a nice blood trail. I have carried a 32 ACP occassionally. And honestly, consider it about the same as 380. I don't INTEND to get INTO a gunfight with either (hell, I don't INTEND to get into a gunfight with my EDC 45 ACP!), but I DO intend to use it to extract myself if required.
I don't ever want to be shot by anything. I am led to believe one of the deadliest rounds is a 22 once it gets "inside." It will bounce around, not exit, and punch a lot of blood leaks in some vital parts 0 and kill very slowly. I would expect a 32 to do about the same IF it didn't exit.
I love my 32s for fun, and all I REALLY rely on them for. The was always a Grail gun/got it RIGHT! The pair of 32Ls (Colt and Smith) are because they are old/historical). I would carry a SA 32 Mag for yotes/woods if I had one. But ALL are tons of fun at the range.
Alibi: I think the 32L revolver is the perfect tool to teach a new shooter on. What I intend to use for my DILs who are traditionally non-shooters.
And it was way before the magnum craze.
If I am shooting at someone, I intend to kill - which means the threat is stopped.
Don't want to start a pissing contest. But back in the day, the 32 (again, as I understand it) was used. And things aren't what they used to be. I get that. But, if someone comes in, and gets shot at with a 32, chances are, unless they are hardened, they will leave, maybe also leaving a nice blood trail. I have carried a 32 ACP occassionally. And honestly, consider it about the same as 380. I don't INTEND to get INTO a gunfight with either (hell, I don't INTEND to get into a gunfight with my EDC 45 ACP!), but I DO intend to use it to extract myself if required.
I don't ever want to be shot by anything. I am led to believe one of the deadliest rounds is a 22 once it gets "inside." It will bounce around, not exit, and punch a lot of blood leaks in some vital parts 0 and kill very slowly. I would expect a 32 to do about the same IF it didn't exit.
I love my 32s for fun, and all I REALLY rely on them for. The was always a Grail gun/got it RIGHT! The pair of 32Ls (Colt and Smith) are because they are old/historical). I would carry a SA 32 Mag for yotes/woods if I had one. But ALL are tons of fun at the range.
Alibi: I think the 32L revolver is the perfect tool to teach a new shooter on. What I intend to use for my DILs who are traditionally non-shooters.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
There is no doubt that 32 caliber cartridges, both as revolver cartridges and pistol cartridges, were very prevalent in the U.S.A. in the early 1900’s. In 1896 Theodore Roosevelt was the president of the New York City Police Commission and he standardized the department on a Colt revolvers chambered in 32 New Police (AKA 32 S&W Long). The 32 ACP was also very popular in the U.S. and was held in high regard in Europe long after America had become enamored with larger calibers.
The advent of smokeless powder changed the game and smaller handgun projectiles became a little more viable as self-defense cartridges. There was a learning curve and after initially embracing small cartridges, there was a trend back to larger calibers.
Cartridge wars are senseless because they are unwinnable. Any projectile that significantly damages the right piece of human anatomy will stop a fight. Some cartridges improve the odds of achieving that needed damage due to their more reliable penetration and larger frontal area. Death is not the correct criteria of effectiveness. It does you no good if your adversary dies 10 seconds after he buries an ax in your head.
I think it’s fair to say that 32 caliber guns (both revolvers and pistols) were extremely popular from the late 1800’s up into about the interwar period. I also think it is fair to say that the huge numbers of those types of guns in circulation made their use practically inevitable. You use what you got.
The advent of smokeless powder changed the game and smaller handgun projectiles became a little more viable as self-defense cartridges. There was a learning curve and after initially embracing small cartridges, there was a trend back to larger calibers.
Cartridge wars are senseless because they are unwinnable. Any projectile that significantly damages the right piece of human anatomy will stop a fight. Some cartridges improve the odds of achieving that needed damage due to their more reliable penetration and larger frontal area. Death is not the correct criteria of effectiveness. It does you no good if your adversary dies 10 seconds after he buries an ax in your head.
I think it’s fair to say that 32 caliber guns (both revolvers and pistols) were extremely popular from the late 1800’s up into about the interwar period. I also think it is fair to say that the huge numbers of those types of guns in circulation made their use practically inevitable. You use what you got.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Sorry, I want them dead, for the later civil suit trial. I have not even been close to being attacked since I left Law Enforcement, 50 years ago.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I want them to stop trying to harm me or someone I love. If they die in the process, so be it, but my goal is to stop the attack.
Thumbcocker
Active Member
Some years back I got hold of a bound compilation of many years of a shooting magazine. Reading an article from the 1950's, the author was extolling the virtues of the many .32 acp pistols coming into the U.S. after the war. His premise was that they were wonderful companion guns for knocking around outside.
The author mentioned that most anytime the subject of pistols came up the discussion was always gunfights or bear defense. The author felt that a .32 acp was a neat little gun for most of what you would want a pistol to do.
I would tend to agree but I do prefer .32 revolvers to avoid brass loss.
Full disclosure. I have no experience with gunfights, bear attacks, or gunfighting bears.
The author mentioned that most anytime the subject of pistols came up the discussion was always gunfights or bear defense. The author felt that a .32 acp was a neat little gun for most of what you would want a pistol to do.
I would tend to agree but I do prefer .32 revolvers to avoid brass loss.
Full disclosure. I have no experience with gunfights, bear attacks, or gunfighting bears.
Rally
NC Minnesota
There seems to be plenty of .32 loading advise out there if you look. Some a tad warm for older revolvers too. I shoot the .32 Mag Ruger Single Six. Don't care much for the mag loadings so shoot milder loadings. The 85 gr RCBS at @600 FPS does a nice job dispatching live beaver, and not too tough on sitting Grouse.
Like the .357, I believe the .32 mag would make a better rifle round than a pistol. I just don't care for the ear splitting bark of either in a handgun. I can't justify a .327 because I 've got the Marlin 1894 in .32-20, and pretty fond of it.
Like the .357, I believe the .32 mag would make a better rifle round than a pistol. I just don't care for the ear splitting bark of either in a handgun. I can't justify a .327 because I 've got the Marlin 1894 in .32-20, and pretty fond of it.
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
My 32-20 rifle is a Browning Mdl 53, and VERY fond of it! While I would like to 'have' a 32 Mag rifle (and SA), no real reason for the expense, as I have the 53, and a pair of 32-20 DA revolvers - old Smith and old Colt!