Getting ready for Deer Season

[Ben]

My friend Bryan has an older model Tikka ( pre T-3 ) stainless bolt action rifle in .308 Win.
Today he fired 5 rounds at 100 yards into 5/8" . He was shooting my bullet that I designed, the Accurate, 212 gr. gas check ( single lube groove ) sized to .311" with 17.5 grs. of 2400. The bullet has a 2 diameter nose.

 

[waco]

I'd say that will get the job done! Great shooting too!

 

[S Mac]

Great shooting and a good looking bullet Ben. Looks like a dead deer to me.

 

[KHornet]

Nice!

Paul

 

[Kevin Stenberg]

We know you are a master of getting everything out of all bullet designs there are. But i haven't seen much about the difference if any between the 2 bullets in that 1 mold.

 

[Ian]

He's probably still waiting for me to make that batch of lube I promised I'd send him for testing....sometime back in the spring.

 

[35 shooter]

That is some fine cast bullet shooting.

What’s the meplat dia. on that bullet Ben? Probably a bit too big to feed in my mauser just looking at it.
Fine looking bullet for sure.
How’s the tumble lube groove shoot compared to the single groove?

 

[Ben]

.220 "

 

[KHornet]

Ben,
o you make softpoints for that bullet?
Have never shot deer with 30 Cal cast. Have
used 375H&H and 45-70 flat nose bullets at
about 1800-1850 for deer and bore. Think I
might try 30 cal this year on deer in 308, and
am looking at the NOE hunter. Would appreciate
your opinion on that bullet and a recommended
load. Would not be shooting much over 100 yd
if that.

Paul

 

[Ben]

Paul,

My friend Bryan and I have not had great luck with .30 cal. cast bullets shaped like the hunter. The semi point design seems to punch a .30 cal. hole ( entrance and exit ) and then they run. If the bullet is placed correctly, hopefully they won't run too far.

The flat point design like my .220 " meplat is a far quicker killer.

Often times with the large meplat, deer are dead on the spot.

Ben

 

[Ian]

15+ years ago when I used to hunt with an '06 @ 2kfps and 30-30 at 1800, I couldn't tell the difference in rn vs. rfn. Then I got a Ranch Dog wfn with a razor-sharp meplat edge, and still couldn't tell much difference at 1800. Hps any more than a cup point just blow off the nose and become a wadcutter that cuts a clean, caliber sized hole.

Then I figured out how to push the wfn to 2150 fps with accuracy and it became a real killer, at least out to 100 yards or so wherr the speed really dropped off. After futzing with a lot of different calibers, alloys, and speeds (and learning there can be too much of a good thing when it comes to speed and malleability), I concluded for my purposes that if it ain't a .35 or better, it needs to go 2200 or better and have a point so it doesn't slow down too soon. You can do a lot with the right alloy and .30-caliber cup points at speeds less than 2kfps, but be mindful of distance to impact and remember how quickly they lose velocity.

 

[fiver]

after killing a decent sized doe with a 30 carbine revolver and a rnfp bullet at about 950 fps M.V.,
there is a little something more to it than a 'standard' formula.
speed and meplat are interrelated.
IMO there is a minimum meplat diameter [for,,, well,, I really hate to even say it,,,, energy transfer/ not energy dump.. transfer] and the smaller it is the faster the bullet needs to be.
otherwise you don't leave a large enough PERMANENT wound channel, even though you may leave a large temporary wound channel.
the wound channel is directly related to the amount of tissue pushed by the front of the bullet.
the nose [not the frontal picture including the shoulder] and how easily that nose can slide through the tissue is what causes that transfer.

most people are not prepared for the permanent damage [internally] a heavy, large diameter, slow moving object can impart.
they expect it from something moving fast, but that damage is from the bullet breaking apart and causing smaller [unpredictable] secondary wounding.
find a spot in between those two places on the scale [closer to the first one] and your gonna be very successful in breaking down life support functions on a consistent basis.

 

[John]

I shot two Antelope and two Whitetail with the 311440. I pushed one too fast and had a blow up that resulted in a dead right there from trauma but very short penetration. When I slowed it down to 2200 muzzle velocity they kills came with minimal trauma, walk for a few steps then lay down and the head drops.
Adding to what Fiver says the condition of the animal may have something to do with hunting with cast. Many of our does are fairly lean as are most of the bucks in rutting season. Some of the deer I shot in SE Idaho resembled 55 gallon barrels with legs. The fat can clog up holes and restrict tracking sign.

 

[35 shooter]

Only thing I can add to a .30 cal. hunting with cast discussion is the only deer i’ve killed so far with cast in that cal.

.308 win., noe 30xcb(very small flat on the nose)bullet, 2450 FPS.
Fair sized whitetail @ 50 yds. Broadside through the lungs and very top of the heart made it about 50 yds. downhill.
May have lost a quarter cup of meat at the exit. Offside rib cage was totally bloodshot like hit with jacketed, but was just blood trapped under the membrane on top of the meat and rinsed right off with a water bath.
The lungs were deflated almost completely flat.

Of course, that’s just one example, but I was surprised at the internal damage.

 

[fiver]

yeah John {chuckle] it's not too unusual to shoot a 250 lb deer and trim about as much fat off as you do meat.
the one I shot last year fooled me in body size [from the fat] and age, he had a real nice rack but when I got to him I realized he couldn't have been more than 2-1/2.
just good Genes [especially for the area] and good nutrition.
almost wished I hadn't shot him so he could have helped push some of the 3x3 [that should split into a 4x4 on the 1&2's but don't] genes out of the pool.

 

[Rally]

Any wolves in your area Fiver? Row crops?

 

[fiver]

wolves are here and there in the area.
we are just south and west of Yellowstone.

the only real crops in the area is wheat and potatoes, the alpalpha in the area is usually high protein stuff since we usually only get in 2 cuttings.
winter wheat is a big deer draw though.
when we had a black powder season i would hunt the buck brush on a little hill behind a winter wheat field and usually pull in a decent buck as they come past on their way to bed down for the day.

 

[KHornet]

Thanks Ben!

Paul

 

[Rally Hess]

wolves are here and there in the area.
we are just south and west of Yellowstone.

the only real crops in the area is wheat and potatoes, the alpalpha in the area is usually high protein stuff since we usually only get in 2 cuttings.
winter wheat is a big deer draw though.
when we had a black powder season i would hunt the buck brush on a little hill behind a winter wheat field and usually pull in a decent buck as they come past on their way to bed down for the day.

Was just curious what was putting that much fat on your deer. Few small hay fields here but no ag. Deer here have to beat the bears and squirrels to the acorns. Deep snow can get pretty rough on them and the wolves work on them when they are yarded late winter. Numbers are coming back some now.

 

[Intheshop]

Looks like a solid deer getter rig Ben.