I've been told that Glock will be discontinuing the model 20 in 10 mm for the generation 5 guns as Glock will be returning to the early single pin frame style (trigger pin only, losing the locking bolt pin). Can any one tell me if this is B.S. or if the above is correct? My knowledge of Glock in general is pretty limited.
Glock Question
- Thread starter david s
- Start date
I looked around the net before posting my question. It seemed that whenever Glock changes to there next generation pistol (there currently at gen 5 fairly recently replacing gen 4) the rumors begin. That said when I looked on the Glock web site they show a photo of the 5 generations of there model 17 in 9mm. The first (mid 1980's} and second generation pistols have a single trigger pin. The 3rd and 4th generation pistols have two pins, the trigger pin and the locking bolt pin. The last pistol shown generation 5 is back to a single pin. This came up in a conversation with someone who's way more into Glocks than I'll ever be but I'm wondering if getting spare parts makes sense. I've owned exactly one Glock and it's a fairly new arrival.
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California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I'm very far from Glock knowledgeable, having owned a third generation 27 for two years, but have a question. How do those that use only the trigger pin secure the locking block?
*Don't forget the trigger mechanism housing pin, that makes either two or three pin models.
*Don't forget the trigger mechanism housing pin, that makes either two or three pin models.
As I mentioned Glock knowledge isn't something I posses. I'm referring to the two pins above the trigger. The larger diameter trigger pin and the smaller locking bolt pin (parts 28 and 33 in the exploded diagram if I remember correctly). I'm not sure how the locking bolt is secured in a single pin frame. I've shot some Glocks owned by others but until about 5 months ago never owned one. In another discussion on this forum I mentioned that with regards to the 10mm, that when I went looking to purchase one I wanted to like the Glock 20 in 10mm as it had a better reputation for longevity but just couldn't and ended up with a 1911 in 10mm. This pistol was available at to good a price to just let go by, but if it had not been the model 20 in 10 mm it wouldn't have been of any interest. The person I was speaking to mentioned that the locking bolt pin was added to the 10 mm Glocks after they were originally introduced and the original design began breaking frames. How much of this is true I've not a clue. Mines a 3rd generation with two pins. I don't know much beyond that.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
My Glock 20SF and 29SF are both Gen 3 pistols, because that is the latest generation allowed to be sold in Kalifornistan.
The ColtBreaker loads were typically Norma-level loadings--200 grainers at 1200 FPS. The vast majority of 10mm loads now send a 180 grain bullet between 1125-1150 FPS, and are deemed generally safe for Colts. The hottest loads considered safe for Colts are the Winchester Silvertips, which send a 175 grain bullet at 1225-1250 FPS. They are a bit of a handful in the 29, and a fun ride in the 20.
Scrupulously avoid the Boutique Loadings of some "custom" producers. The Siren Songs of custom loaders are why hearing protection was invented. I'm sorry, but you can't tell me that ANY 200 grain bullet running 1300 FPS is "safe" in Colts or Glocks. 30+ years of 10mm Auto experience here. I have a pretty fair idea of what the caliber can and cannot do, and despite the fevered claims of fanbois across North America, it IS NOT a magazine-fed 41 Magnum, even with the Norma-level loads. It sits between the 357 and 41 Magnums. That the Glock 20 starts the music with 15 + 1 on board is quite advantageous.
The ColtBreaker loads were typically Norma-level loadings--200 grainers at 1200 FPS. The vast majority of 10mm loads now send a 180 grain bullet between 1125-1150 FPS, and are deemed generally safe for Colts. The hottest loads considered safe for Colts are the Winchester Silvertips, which send a 175 grain bullet at 1225-1250 FPS. They are a bit of a handful in the 29, and a fun ride in the 20.
Scrupulously avoid the Boutique Loadings of some "custom" producers. The Siren Songs of custom loaders are why hearing protection was invented. I'm sorry, but you can't tell me that ANY 200 grain bullet running 1300 FPS is "safe" in Colts or Glocks. 30+ years of 10mm Auto experience here. I have a pretty fair idea of what the caliber can and cannot do, and despite the fevered claims of fanbois across North America, it IS NOT a magazine-fed 41 Magnum, even with the Norma-level loads. It sits between the 357 and 41 Magnums. That the Glock 20 starts the music with 15 + 1 on board is quite advantageous.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I can't specifically answer the OP's question but I can say the Gen 5 models have a single pin.
The second pin used to secure the locking block in the frame is not present on the Gen 5 models.
I'm not privy to Glock's corporate intentions but it seems that they are transitioning from producing Gen 4 models to Gen 5 models by introducing individual Gen 5 models as they work to add Gen 5 production lines to their manufacturing. Currently Glock does not offer a model 20 in a Gen 5 variant.
However, I don't know IF Glock intends to offer a Gen 5 model 20 in the future.
A few possibilities exist:
1. They simply haven't got around to making the model 20 in a Gen 5 variant yet. This is entirely possible considering they've focused on their best selling models first in their efforts to transition into Gen 5 production.
2. They don't intend to make a Gen 5 model 20 but may continue to produce it in a Gen 4 configuration. This is also possible considering the low sales volume of that model. It may not be economical to re-tool for that particular model.
3. They may intend to drop the model 20 from production. I think this is the least likely option because while the model 20 doesn't sell well compared to other models, it does sell. And they're already tooled up to make that model, so unless there's something critical and expensive wearing out that's needed to make that model; there's no reason to drop it.
Rumors get started when someone that DOESN'T know, speculates about some topic and offers that SPECULATION as if it was fact.
The second pin used to secure the locking block in the frame is not present on the Gen 5 models.
I'm not privy to Glock's corporate intentions but it seems that they are transitioning from producing Gen 4 models to Gen 5 models by introducing individual Gen 5 models as they work to add Gen 5 production lines to their manufacturing. Currently Glock does not offer a model 20 in a Gen 5 variant.
However, I don't know IF Glock intends to offer a Gen 5 model 20 in the future.
A few possibilities exist:
1. They simply haven't got around to making the model 20 in a Gen 5 variant yet. This is entirely possible considering they've focused on their best selling models first in their efforts to transition into Gen 5 production.
2. They don't intend to make a Gen 5 model 20 but may continue to produce it in a Gen 4 configuration. This is also possible considering the low sales volume of that model. It may not be economical to re-tool for that particular model.
3. They may intend to drop the model 20 from production. I think this is the least likely option because while the model 20 doesn't sell well compared to other models, it does sell. And they're already tooled up to make that model, so unless there's something critical and expensive wearing out that's needed to make that model; there's no reason to drop it.
Rumors get started when someone that DOESN'T know, speculates about some topic and offers that SPECULATION as if it was fact.
I mentioned in my second post how I looked around the internet before posting here. One of the things I looked up was "Glock 20 frame breakage", there are a surprising number of these. All seemed to be from people over loading or using the "Boutique Loadings of some "custom" producers". These blew the case and ruined the frames. The Winchester 175 grain 10mm load at 1200 fps is about maximum in this platform but the 41 Winchester 175 grain Silvertip also at about 1200 fps is a middle of the road 41 load. Not really much of a comparison except weight and velocity. I still have a S&W 657 Mountain gun that isn't going anywhere. The 10mm with a 200 grain bullet at around 1200 fps is what gets my attention with the cartridge. That may not be realistic though. Another item I tried finding was model 20's with a single pin frame, I failed not one found by myself. So this might be a MYTH. So lets play "Worse Case Scenario". Make believe Glocks discontinuing the 10mm model 20's. What parts would you put up. I'm thinking an Extractor, both the Locking Bolt Pin and the Trigger Pin, a Locking Bolt. I guess what I'm asking is what parts are exclusively dedicated to the model 20 in 10mm and don't interchange with the other large frame Glocks?
One other thought CZ 93X62 mentioned that the generation three Glocks were the last generation allowed in good old California. And Petrol & Powder thought that possibly Glock would continue the model 20 as a generation 4 pistol. Wouldn't continuing the model 20 third generation maximize your sellers market?
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
That "seller's market" stuff just gives me a headache. The current "seller's market" scenario is a PITA in 3 dimensions.
If I was to design a 10mm to hunt with, it would be my now-departed S&W Model 1006. Those boat anchors could digest Norma-level loads all day long and come back for more. Likewise the old Bren 10--indestrucible, but there were never very many available.
In a righteous world, CZ would chamber their excellent CZ-97 in 10mm Auto. It would literally be a Bren 10, and supported by a substantial gunmaker of national scale with an established world-wide marketing matrix.
SIG-Sauer has made an all-stainless-steel 10mm on their P-220 chassis. If they could come into Kalifornistan, I would have one already. They are marketed as hunting pistols and come with adjustable rear sight. I don't know if they are "Norma-level-capable".
I can see getting as much OOMPH from your 10mm if you cart the thing around to dissuade bruins from chewing on your person. In a Glock, the 200 grain J-words run at 1100 FPS shouldn't break things internally. Marie and I have had a few Close Encounters Of The Furred Kind during our wild country jaunts over the years, and we lean toward rifles rather than handguns to stop those scraps. In any venue, 16 rounds of 10mm capacity on the first magazine is a real upgrade.
If I was to design a 10mm to hunt with, it would be my now-departed S&W Model 1006. Those boat anchors could digest Norma-level loads all day long and come back for more. Likewise the old Bren 10--indestrucible, but there were never very many available.
In a righteous world, CZ would chamber their excellent CZ-97 in 10mm Auto. It would literally be a Bren 10, and supported by a substantial gunmaker of national scale with an established world-wide marketing matrix.
SIG-Sauer has made an all-stainless-steel 10mm on their P-220 chassis. If they could come into Kalifornistan, I would have one already. They are marketed as hunting pistols and come with adjustable rear sight. I don't know if they are "Norma-level-capable".
I can see getting as much OOMPH from your 10mm if you cart the thing around to dissuade bruins from chewing on your person. In a Glock, the 200 grain J-words run at 1100 FPS shouldn't break things internally. Marie and I have had a few Close Encounters Of The Furred Kind during our wild country jaunts over the years, and we lean toward rifles rather than handguns to stop those scraps. In any venue, 16 rounds of 10mm capacity on the first magazine is a real upgrade.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
To the question, "what parts would you put up"? The answer is, "another identical pistol".
Seriously, you don't know what is going to break (if anything) so your best insurance would be an identical pistol. Plus, it's probably cheaper in the long run to buy an entire replacement pistol than to assemble all of the parts that you might need.
I don't think a Glock model 20 is fragile. If treated with a little common sense, I think one could keep a G20 in operation for decades.
However, on the other hand, I'm not convinced the Glock 20 is going away. So before you start laying out cash for spare pistols, my advice is to sit in the tall weeds for a bit. Even IF Glock discontinued that model.......there are a lot of Glock model 20's in circulation. They aren't going to evaporate overnight. The opportunity to acquire a second Glock Model 20 will not instantly close if Glock discontinues that model.
I also don't see Glock USA making a pistol tailored for the California market. There's no money in that. California has a huge population but there are not enough "gun people" in California to offset the market in the other 49 states. Despite the huge overall population, the market is just not there.
Seriously, you don't know what is going to break (if anything) so your best insurance would be an identical pistol. Plus, it's probably cheaper in the long run to buy an entire replacement pistol than to assemble all of the parts that you might need.
I don't think a Glock model 20 is fragile. If treated with a little common sense, I think one could keep a G20 in operation for decades.
However, on the other hand, I'm not convinced the Glock 20 is going away. So before you start laying out cash for spare pistols, my advice is to sit in the tall weeds for a bit. Even IF Glock discontinued that model.......there are a lot of Glock model 20's in circulation. They aren't going to evaporate overnight. The opportunity to acquire a second Glock Model 20 will not instantly close if Glock discontinues that model.
I also don't see Glock USA making a pistol tailored for the California market. There's no money in that. California has a huge population but there are not enough "gun people" in California to offset the market in the other 49 states. Despite the huge overall population, the market is just not there.
Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
Those high pressure loadings are actually the loads that were originally designed for the 10mm. They ended up downloading them because manufacturers were not wanting to reenginer their guns to be able to run at the high pressures. Well that is what I remember anyway. Not sure if it was true but I know I read it somewhere in an old gun mag.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
A lot of people think that the 40 is too snappy. 
They shoot the nine because it's not snappy. These same folks have nothing good to say about anything bigger than 9 mm, largely because they can't or dont spend the time to shoot it well! They spelt justifications for their choice by condemning other calibers. Instead of seeking training & investing time to learn to shoot more proficiently.
The 10mm is a nice caliber it's not, for everyone. Its also not really a shoot all day kind a caliber. It's powerful it is capable of throwing a 200 grain bullet past 1200 ft./s. Loading it to its full potential is what it was designed for. The guns that have problems with that, are the 1911's without a ramped barrel. Those guns should be kept with most of the current level neutered 10 mm loadings on the market.
The Glocks and many of the new 1911s with a ramped barrel can fully take the 10 mm to its full potential safely and have been for many many years.
Largely speaking, shooters, are the limitation here, not the guns.
CW
They shoot the nine because it's not snappy. These same folks have nothing good to say about anything bigger than 9 mm, largely because they can't or dont spend the time to shoot it well! They spelt justifications for their choice by condemning other calibers. Instead of seeking training & investing time to learn to shoot more proficiently.
The 10mm is a nice caliber it's not, for everyone. Its also not really a shoot all day kind a caliber. It's powerful it is capable of throwing a 200 grain bullet past 1200 ft./s. Loading it to its full potential is what it was designed for. The guns that have problems with that, are the 1911's without a ramped barrel. Those guns should be kept with most of the current level neutered 10 mm loadings on the market.
The Glocks and many of the new 1911s with a ramped barrel can fully take the 10 mm to its full potential safely and have been for many many years.
Largely speaking, shooters, are the limitation here, not the guns.
CW
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In the 1980's I shot Silhouette regularly. For centerfire I shot 41 and 44 magnum's. Back then I figured more velocity more better. After all lighter bullets at higher velocity were flatter shooting. As long as the steel fell every thing was good. Four decades on now and my thoughts have changed though. I tend to look for something with a velocity between 1100 and 1200 fps. If there is still room to go faster I add bullet weight instead. So the 10 mm with it's 200 grain bullet and 1200 fps velocity seemed like a good fit. If a bit light in the bullet area. I've had a Kimber 1911 in 10mm (ramped barrel) for a while now and after boomeranging back to Kimber so they could hone the chamber/feed ramp and uprate the recoil spring it's been very good. Pretty much forgot about Glocks until this model 20 wandered in to my life. This Glocks is like a stray dog or cat that wanders into your home and adopts you. You ask yourself do I really want it? You do know for sure you don't want another. Hence a spare parts quest. There was a manufacturer of CZ 75 clones Tanfoglio (?) that offered the 10mm at one point in time. That would have been interesting.
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California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Glock continues to manufacture and sell Generation 3 models for the California market, because the 4s and 5s are not certified for sale in the state. When I bought my 27, the local gun store was selling all the Glocks it could get. One day the display case would be full of Glocks, Springfields and S&Ws. The next week the Glocks would be gone, but the Springfield and S&W count would be the same.
According to an Internet search, only Texas and Florida residents have more guns than Californians. I think Glock knows where money is to be made.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
But how many model 20's could they sell?
It's not exactly their most popular gun. It's a good gun but they sell far more units of other models.
And California's large number of gun ownership (which is not the same as gun sales numbers) is only a function of their population, not how robust their gun market is. With Florida's population of 21.3 million and Texas' population of 29 million and California's 39 million - you would expect to see California at the top of the list for those 3 states. Despite having a huge population, California is still dead last in that list of three states in terms of gun ownership.
California has a lot of people but it doesn't have a lot of pro-gun people. I don't see Glock so worried about losing sales in California that they make a special run of one of their least popular guns (in terms of sales numbers) just to sell a few 10mm pistols in that state.
It's not exactly their most popular gun. It's a good gun but they sell far more units of other models.
And California's large number of gun ownership (which is not the same as gun sales numbers) is only a function of their population, not how robust their gun market is. With Florida's population of 21.3 million and Texas' population of 29 million and California's 39 million - you would expect to see California at the top of the list for those 3 states. Despite having a huge population, California is still dead last in that list of three states in terms of gun ownership.
California has a lot of people but it doesn't have a lot of pro-gun people. I don't see Glock so worried about losing sales in California that they make a special run of one of their least popular guns (in terms of sales numbers) just to sell a few 10mm pistols in that state.