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Goatwhiskers

Goatwhiskers

Member
Bought a S/W combat masterpiece the other day, came with a bunch of handloaded ammo. Ain't much on shooting someone elses' loads but curious about some of it. Supposed to be the old boy's light loads, labeled as 158gr RN cast with 5.0gr WSF powder. Got no info on that one. Assuming to errors in loading, sounds OK? Some of the other ammo is labeled as "Hot-Defence or Hot-Hunting" and are loaded with jacketed hollow points, no info on powder charge. I'll pull those as I have no use for hollow points anyway. Interesting story behind this one. The old boy-deceased- used to be the firearms instructor for N.O.P.D. and was into competition shooting. The pistol was made back in '80, had the timing worked on by Jerry Miculek, has the cocobolo grips, a 6" barrel, and there ain't a mark on the gun. I understand from the son that the old man hadn't put over 100 rounds thru it. Don't "need" it but wasn't about to let that one get away.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
I don't know about the loads .....
But any paper trail on the gun would make it sort of a collector shooter kind of like the Wyatt Earp SAAs . He was known to at the hint of a fan to buy a pistol walk back across street and sell it to the fan with the receipt ink still wet . The fan then owned Wyatt Earp's pistol and was there when he bought it . As a result there are hundreds of Colts that were legitimately owned and carries by him ......even if it was only long enough to cross the street . Only about a half a dozen are really guns he owned and carried for any length of time . So it would be for a JM tuned gun if JM actually did the work kind of like paying $50 more for an old Sporter Mauser in AI with a POA signed receipt .
 
Goatwhiskers

Goatwhiskers

Member
Wasn't too concerned about the work done on it, if he did that's great. Kinda like a Colt double I was once offered that "belonged to Wyatt Earp". No papers, it never happened. Just a fine pistol in as new condition with no box. Tried it yesterday, shoots better than I can hold it. His lo-power loads are a trifle snappy, may just go ahead and pull everything to be safe. Was really wondering about that powder, not familiar with it and don't see anything upon cursory examination of some manuals. GW
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
I done a cursory glance through an old Winchester pamphlet and seen nothing for WSF in either the 38 or 357 case.
no doubt it could have been okay in the 357.
I got data for the 9mm all the way up to 147gr, the 40 short, the 40 longer, and the 45 acp.
the 45 acp data showed 5.5-6.2grs for a230 lead rn.
it looks like wsf would maybe be just a titch slower than green-dot.
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I'm leary of shooting loads from people I don't know really well. And I mean really well.
 
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358156 hp

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Well, 5.0 gr of WST (Winchester Super Target) is above the published data (3.3 gr starting, 3.7gr max) for a 158 gr cast bullet in 38 Spl (roughly a 50% overload vs. std pressure ammo). WST isn't shown as with +P data, but my experience in overloading and abusing 38 Spl cases makes me suggest that this load is off the charts on pressure, probably somewhere in 357 mag pressures, or possibly even higher. To be honest, I have a similar 38 Spl load with Red Dot (Jeff Coopers load), and I still use it occasionally in "L" frame or Ruger 357 mag guns only. I have a good reason (to me) for doing this, but will never recommend it to others. The same with the Skeeter Skelton load, and the Elmer Keith load, which are also off the charts. If this is the old boys "light load", I would definitely be pulling down his "hot loads" for salvage, and I'd likely do the same with the light stuff as well. Especially in a "K" frame.
 
Goatwhiskers

Goatwhiskers

Member
FWIW all of these are in mag cases. I do believe I'll pull all of them. Shooting those 6 actually violates my long standing rule: I do not reload for others, neither do I shoot others' reloads. I will mentor anyone. GW

Edit:Incicentally the powder charge was labeled as WSF, still unknown, so I'll call 'em mislabeled and pull all of 'em.
 
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358156 hp

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I flunked reading comprehension, and hukt on fonix nevr werkd for me.

As you said, it's best to just pull them down.

ETA- Ah Ha! 4.9 gr of WSF with a 160 gr cast bullet is a 38 Super load! That's where the guy extrapolated his data from!
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Makes sense. I looked in a few manuals myself last night and didn't find anything for WSF in the .38 either.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
I seen that 38 super load.
I figured the guy done a little cross extrapolation and worked up a load from there.
 
358156 hp

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I'm guessing he added that 1/10th gr to help offset the larger case capacity of the 357 cases to get 950-1000 fps. It ain't right, but the 38 Super is rated at slightly higher pressures than the 357 mag or 9mm.
 
Pistolero

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I got 1,000 rds of free .223 ammo with an AR I bought years ago. The guy said he bought it
from a "professoinal reloader", and I know one here in KC area at the time, did fine wor,
figured it might be his work, known to be good.

On about the 20th shot ---BOOM - shattered the bolt and carrier, blew remaining rounds
and guts of the mag out the bottom. Upper an lower were fine, new BCG fixed it.

Upon teardown, it was a perfectly reasonable load of what was almost 100% W844, all done right
except......no trimming on brass. I did a 100 rounds statistical plot, normal distribution curve. Mean was
.020" over max, upper 10% was greater than .025 over max length. IIRC, worst single case was .032 over
max length.

:angry::headbang:


Since that is over three pounds of powder, a whole bunch of brass and primers.....pulled it all
with collet puller, started over assuming a milsurp powder 'similar to W844" (which it was physically
idential to under 30X with a binocular microscope) and worked up my own loading data, which was
right in there with W844 dope, actually wound up with a touch more powder to reach mil spec velocity.
I trimmed all the brass, then loaded it with my data for that powder and it was perfectly good ammo.

But, failing to grasp that trimming rifle brass is critical is amazingly stupid of whoever loaded it.
Me thinking that it was actually "prefessionally reloaded" because I was told it was so was a bit too
gullible, too. $350 worth of ammo was a bit too attractive back when I was a lot more impecunious
than I am now.

Bill
 
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