Got WOOD?
- Thread starter JWFilips
- Start date
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Smokey, I don't think 2 mules are going to be any more likely to pull that than 2 horses. 4 or 6 good horses, or mules, yeah, especially on ice if there's a downhill grade to start with. I've had draft horses that would just turn around and look at me if I tried to get them to do something way beyond what they should have. I've seen people push them to the point of crazy too. I don't for second believe all horses are going to panic and go nuts. Not everyone trains their teams like the pullers that seem to delight in having a terrified, wild team smashing into the collar.
The more I look at the picture the more I'm convinced it's a staged photo. The slightest un-evenness in the road, ice or not and over it goes. the base just isn't wide enough for the height and once it starts to move sideways there's no stopping it. Any downhill slope and stopping it on ice would be a big problem. Plus there are no other harness's so it's two horses. Don't know what it weighs but that would be a serious overload for modern trucks. Never see logs that large & that many on logging trucks and for a reason. Still though, a great picture.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
Definitely agree with you Bret. And you are absolutely right that the vast majority of horses are not prone to panicky outbursts. I saw more than my share because I was teaching 5 to 8 year old horses, lessons that most horses learn in their first year or two.
Nearly all the horses I trained for the Park Service were Quarter Horses retired from the race tracks.
I do still have a preference for mules over horses when it comes to pulling heavy loads and boring mundane work.
While I've spent very little time around draft horses, those I've been around seemed more tolerant and patient to the faults of humans than say, an Arabian or Appaloosa.
Nearly all the horses I trained for the Park Service were Quarter Horses retired from the race tracks.
I do still have a preference for mules over horses when it comes to pulling heavy loads and boring mundane work.
While I've spent very little time around draft horses, those I've been around seemed more tolerant and patient to the faults of humans than say, an Arabian or Appaloosa.
Chris
Well-Known Member
I don't believe there is a team made that could start that load unless downhill on ice. I would have at least 4 and probably 6 to move that and keep it moving, but it is obviously unstable, unsafe and only built for show. A normal sled might have at maximum 1/3 of that weight. That is all of 15 thousand board feet, maybe much more, of white pine sawlogs that weigh in the vicinity of 12,000 pounds per thousand board feet. Minimum 180,000 pounds.
Makes a great photo though.
Makes a great photo though.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
Might have to resurrect the old Borax 20 mule team.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Chris, I've read several old articles in various magazines, and a few in booklets I've found published by the USDA, Forest Service and other outlets like the Horse and Mule Assoc about winter logging and the loads they were able to move on ice roads. Many times the same recommendation comes up of breaking the load loose with a peavy or crowbar lifting the shoe of the runner free of the ice as much as possible. Oddly, I read the same suggestion in a book by an Alaskan bush pilot who was discussing operations on skis. I seriously doubt that was anything but a staged pic, but I've seen old movies on You Tube with loads about 1/3 that size being moved by draft chunks in the 30's and 40's. I imagine they were exceptional loads and not what the teams moved all day, every day. I believe there are several of these staged photos with gargantuan loads in the Adk Museum and in some of the coffee table books put out by Draft Horse Journal, etc.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Smokey, the drafters I've owned and been around, with a couple of notable exceptions have been far different horses than the Quarter horse/western breeds, Standardbreds and Thoroughbred/Morgan type (buggy horses up here) I've been around. The quarter horses were sort of in between the drafts and the OTT Standardbreds and TBs. We've got a paint I think you set firecrackers off under and all she'd do is roll her eyes at you. But, we just put down an Arab Paint cross that darn near killed me twice. As a general rule I think the average cold blooded drafter is a completely different animal than some of the warmer blooded breeds I've been around. Add in that a lot of people think horses have to have a diet with a lot of grain in it (like giving sugar to a 4 year old for those that don't know) and it's no wonder there are nutso nags out there. I'm around quite a lot of Amish horses these days and I have to say the guys that are good with horses, and not all Amish are, can put a real nice finish on team. None of that lunging into the collar crap. They lean and push and if they can possibly move it, it's gonna move. It' different when a horse is out there 6-7 days a week working 6- 10 hours a day. I've only been around mules a couple times, they just aren't popular up here. They seemed like sensible old things, but I imagine they vary just like horses.
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Chris
Well-Known Member
This photo is a nice package of logs that is typical of what a decent team could draw. 1500 to 2 thousand board feet. Getting a heavy load started is one problem (can be solved by more teams or heavier horses), the other is they must draw more than 1 load a day. If you exhaust them with too heavy a load you are done early. Loggers were typically paid by production so it pays to take care of the horses and be efficient.
Around here the old timers production goal was minimum 50 pieces per skidding horse day and I felt better if I got over 60. I figured to cut an 8 cord truckload of 4' softwood pulp a day, generally 5 thousand board feet of softwood logs if that was available. It's hard work for both man and beast.,
Around here the old timers production goal was minimum 50 pieces per skidding horse day and I felt better if I got over 60. I figured to cut an 8 cord truckload of 4' softwood pulp a day, generally 5 thousand board feet of softwood logs if that was available. It's hard work for both man and beast.,
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smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
Mom took our 17 year old wanna be doctor to the dentist. 2 cavities; one a possible root canal and crown. There goes the $2,000 dental allowance for this year.
To cheer myself up I'm going to smoke a turkey breast and a rack of baby backs.
EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread. Meant this to go in "What you doin today?"
Second EDIT: I am using wood in the smoker.
To cheer myself up I'm going to smoke a turkey breast and a rack of baby backs.
EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread. Meant this to go in "What you doin today?"
Second EDIT: I am using wood in the smoker.
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
That looks a lot more like it Chris. We had a logger up here a few winters back that got into a swamp that he couldn't cross with the skidder. He ended up hiring some Amish guys to take the logs (veneer hard maple IIRC) out over a beaver dam. He said he was amazed that the horses could move as much wood in a day as they did. As he told it what he thought he was going to be 2 weeks or more of sitting and waiting ended up being 4 or 5 days of hustling his butt around to keep up with the incoming wood.
Get everything harvested?
Chris
Well-Known Member
I see you understand horses also! I still miss having them around though. Never dealt with mules but I hear they are worse.Swear at you mean?
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
A brief jog in the road -
Saw an episode of "Forged in Fire" where a competitor had a knife with a handle made from "stabilized horse manure". Yep, you read it right. Apparently they bake it to dry it out and kill all the biological baddies and then it is vacuum impregnated with a plastic resin. Like micarta only with horse manure instead of linen cloth. Actually, it was kind of pretty, a sort of mottled brown color, but wow I'm not sure I'd want that as a handle on anything.
- Back to your regular programming.
Saw an episode of "Forged in Fire" where a competitor had a knife with a handle made from "stabilized horse manure". Yep, you read it right. Apparently they bake it to dry it out and kill all the biological baddies and then it is vacuum impregnated with a plastic resin. Like micarta only with horse manure instead of linen cloth. Actually, it was kind of pretty, a sort of mottled brown color, but wow I'm not sure I'd want that as a handle on anything.
- Back to your regular programming.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
Because horse droppings (road apples) are almost completely just wet undigested hay, it is probably the least yucky poop one might ever have to deal with. Also about the only feces which is legal to allow to drop (out of the back of your horse/horse trailer) onto the roadway.
Very good for your rose bushes by-the-way.
Think I'll still stick with wood, antler, or Phenolic Micarta for my knife or razor scales.
Very good for your rose bushes by-the-way.
Think I'll still stick with wood, antler, or Phenolic Micarta for my knife or razor scales.
Rally
NC Minnesota
There is a lake north of Grand Rapids, Mn. Called “Jack the Horse”, which as the story goes, was named after a horse,
which was pulling a load of logs across the lake and went through.
There is also an old steam engine in the bottom of a bog about 5 miles nw of my house. There was a cedar shingle mill that ran winter spur lines to get logs back to the mill.
Lots of old lumber camps and left over chord roads in these bogs. Some have been turned into snowmobile trails or atv trails. I ‘m working a beaver contract on a trail now that encompasses just shy of four miles long. I dig out old pieces of rough sawn planking etc several times a year. Most of the drainage ditches here were dug by CCC camps that lived with the equipment.”
which was pulling a load of logs across the lake and went through.
There is also an old steam engine in the bottom of a bog about 5 miles nw of my house. There was a cedar shingle mill that ran winter spur lines to get logs back to the mill.
Lots of old lumber camps and left over chord roads in these bogs. Some have been turned into snowmobile trails or atv trails. I ‘m working a beaver contract on a trail now that encompasses just shy of four miles long. I dig out old pieces of rough sawn planking etc several times a year. Most of the drainage ditches here were dug by CCC camps that lived with the equipment.”