Gun safes

[Kevin Stenberg]

Has anyone had any experience with the Sports Afield Journey gun safe? I need to get my first one and need some advice..
I am looking for a 25/30 gun safe. My concern is more for weapon security more so than fire protection. My figuring is that any firearm that goes through a fire is toast anyway.

 

[Brad]

Get bigger than you ever dream of needing. Still won’t be large enough.

No experience with that brand but any safe is better than No safe.

 

[waco]

Not familiar with that brand. I have a Liberty Fat Boy Jr.

 

[waco]

I agree with Brad. I already need another one.

 

[Jeff H]

You probably know from others' experiences that whatever capacity is advertised is about double what will fit without removing bolts, setting every other one upside down and wiping dust off each gun for the extra clearance.

If you were closer, I could make you a heck of a deal on a Liberty which has become too large for me.

EDIT: LOL! Everyone else is going the other direction on size. Believe it though - it's like building a pole barn - figure out what you need and then build one twice that size. It'll work for a while.

If I could afford to have a custom built, it would be 12 INCHES deep and 12 FEET wide! Lotta guns went down the road for lack of use, and a lot of that lack of use might well have been how much of a pain in the butt it was to dig them out from the back of the safe. I swear I've added more "character" to long guns getting them in and out of a safe than in handling in hunting or on the range.

 

[Brad]

If I had my way I would have a safe door leading into a room.

Best I saw was a gunsmith south of Lincoln. He bought a safe door from a small town bank that was being torn down. Had it lifted into is concrete form basement. Room had solid concrete walls and a concrete ceiling. I believe it was like 10x12 feet.

 

[Dimner]

Personally I find with scopes and straight bolts and oddities, I only get about 66% of the stated capacity. I just buy the stack on 18 cabinets. Easy to move being the top reason. Have not gotten to the "rest of my remaining days" domicile yet. So the key points are cutting off access from children/teens and ability to move.

Not even sure how the larger safes would even make it into this house and to my man den.

 

[Dimner]

I have a friend up north in MI that did the exact thing with the vault door. Funny thing is... we always talk guns and me and friends ask him if he has a (insert pretty much any model of gun here from the past 150 years other than ultra obscure). His answer is always "oh yeah I have 3 of those"

So one day I ask him, why do you always have 3 of everything?

"Well grandpa had one, and so my dad got interested in it, and then of course I had to get one. Grandpa and dad have passed on, so now I have all 3."

 

[Rick]

If I had my way I would have a safe door leading into a room.

Best I saw was a gunsmith south of Lincoln. He bought a safe door from a small town bank that was being torn down. Had it lifted into is concrete form basement. Room had solid concrete walls and a concrete ceiling. I believe it was like 10x12 feet.

That's what John (Winelover) Did. Had the safe door lowered into the basement with a crane as the house was being built.

 

[smokeywolf]

Kevin, the weakest area of nearly all safes is the top, sides and back. On most safes, those areas have comparatively thin metal. Many of the safe brands proudly advertise a 3/8" thick door. That often means 1/8" outer layer of steel, 3/16" of fire retardant board, then 1/16" sheet metal on the inside of the door. I don't see that as being enough mass to adequately secure the bolt mechanism. The other panels (sides, back, top) are likely to be so thin, with a cordless grinder and only one spare battery, you could cut an access hole big enough to snake guns out and do it in 30 minutes G/T. The safe manufacturers frequently quote door thickness in fractions of an inch, but side and top thicknesses in "gauge", hoping to make less obvious how thin that metal is.

Like others have advised, whatever the number of firearms you anticipate securing, you'll end up needing at least double that number in safe capacity.

In the end, it boils down to getting what you can afford. There are no safes that are truly secure. What your money buys you is time. The better the safe, the more time it takes a determined bad guy to open it up.

 

[RBHarter]

It takes some planning shotguns and levers stack in nice . I had issues with having not only straight bolts but lefties and righties .

I'll 10th or whatever we're up to on buy no less than 1/3 more than you need and preferably 2.5 especially if you have long barreled pistols .

Hight is another consideration nobody mentions . The old 30&32" shotguns are about 4-6" longer than the shelf in mine so those have to be in the cutout slots . That shelf won't accommodate the long barreled pistols on racks and I have no shelves . My suggestion for 2.5 times as many as you have .
I got mine from the TSC Black Friday sale . It's a Cannon . It seems reasonably substantial but ....... It was heavy shipped but in hindsight not as much so as it could have been .

Liberty is a top shelf example . Cannon not what I expected from the Brand .

I know a guy that built his house with a full basement and the plans say half of that is a "storm shelter/safe room" with a concrete divider wall . He also scored a retired bank vault door the real deal 1/2" armor plate face and inset flush hinges of same . Circa 1935s best . It cost him about $150 for the tune up and combination change . Inside it has a walk out push bar safety of some sort and a "mouse trap" bolt lock . Safe room behind a vault door .

 

[Kevin Stenberg]

Smokey
Thanks for the weak link concerning safes. Whatever I get will be built into a wall so thieves will have to take walls apart before they get to the safe.

 

[Ian]

I watched a safe salesman cut the whole side off of a consumer-grade "safe" with a hatchet and 2# hammer, took him less than five minutes. Not only is the metal thin, it's mild cold-roll and soft as putty. That said, that's all you're going to get for less than 4-6 large. For $800 you can buy a decent cabinet for 30 long guns, photograph them all (with serial numbers) and add a rider to your homeowner's insurance policy for replacement cost, it will be cheaper and better in the long run unless you can a) hide the safe really well or b) afford a real safe (and installation) which will repel all but the most prepared thieves.

BTW, I highly recommend the "rifle rods" storage system, I had my 42 gun safe packed to the gills and after reconfiguring to the Rifle Rods system got only about 3-4 more in there than I had....but I can MUCH more easily access any of them.

What Jeff said about 12" deep and about 12 feet long, plus put it up on blocks about two feet and make it 6' interior height instead of 50". I have acquired a second safe and will be moving it in soon because I'm out of room again.

 

[smokeywolf]

Out of curiosity, I went to the manufacturer's website that built my safe. About 7 years ago my safe retailed for nearly $7K and weighed 1,800 lbs. Same model now weighs 1,550 lbs. and they want close to $9K for it.

 

[Jwatts8815]

I agree with Brad. I already need another one.

I’m just gonna need a vault door so I can use an entire room soon, I can’t fit another Fat Boy in here

 

[L Ross]

The average burglar is a teenage boy and they spend less than 3 minutes in the home. Do not store your guns in your wife's upper bedroom dresser drawer under her panties.

I was the Director of Crime Prevention for my last four years at my first agency and I studied the percentages. Yup, you could be the unlucky bugger to be hit by a pro, but the odds are vastly against it. Put good dead bolts into your home with 4" long screws securing the strike plate into the door frame. The little pri......err ah prankster will be limping down the street at 2:30 in the afternoon with a sprained ankle and you'll have a dirty Nike print on your back door.

Locks, lighting, and removing concealment at potential points of entry can vastly tilt the odds in your favor. They can go break into the neighbor's ill prepared home instead.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Lots of good info above, I'm going to add a little more.
Photograph all of your guns. Minimum 3 photos for each firearm. One overall picture, One close up of the serial number and one close up of the make and model. Don't forget optics, accessories or engravings. Take your time and get useful, clear pictures. In today's world of digital photography there is NO excuse for a bad photo. If the image is bad, you know instantly that it is bad, and you can do it again. You should be able to read the make, model and serial number from the photo. Once the photographic record is complete, store the digital images on some stable media (CD, USB drive, SD card etc.) Place that media in a safe location OFF SITE, so it will not be lost along with the valuable property. If there is a fire, flood, theft, whatever; you don't want the record to be lost with the items. Place the CD/USB drive whatever at a remote location such as a safe deposit box at a bank, an attorney's office, at your place of business, at a trusted friend or family member's home, etc.

SAFES: As pointed out above, Safes only buy time. They are not absolute guarantees of security when it comes to fire & theft. However, buying time is the best we can do. So, decide how much time you wish to buy and purchase accordingly.

I can tell you from personal experience, I have lawfully breached a full-size gun safe with hand tools in less than 10 minutes. Not some sheet metal cabinet but a $1000, 500 lb. plate steel safe. It's not that hard.
If the thief can get the safe down on the floor on its back or carry the entire safe away - it is pretty much over.
Bolt the safe securely to the floor OR build walls around the safe so it cannot easily be removed or tipped over.
Remember, A 5 foot tall safe provides a LOT of leverage to those floor anchors, so don't cut corners on the anchors. Better still, build walls around the safe so it cannot be tipped.

A vault is the best option (you can't carry a vault away) but not everyone has that option. A safe is the next best option.

A thief cannot attack what he cannot find. HIDE THE SAFE !
The room, alcove, closet, etc. that contains the safe should have an opening smaller than the safe so that the safe will not fit through the door/opening.
Do not rely on the weight of the safe to prevent its removal. If people could bring it in the structure, you can bet your last dollar people can take it OUT of the structure.

Never place a safe directly on a concrete floor. Place the safe on a small pedestal. 3"-5" is all you need. This will prevent condensation both under and inside the safe. Plus, a short pedestal will save you in the event of a minor flood. (Think broken pipe or backed up drain) A 3" pedestal can be the difference between ruined contents and no problem at all.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The average burglar is a teenage boy and they spend less than 3 minutes in the home. Do not store your guns in your wife's upper bedroom dresser drawer under her panties.

I was the Director of Crime Prevention for my last four years at my first agency and I studied the percentages. Yup, you could be the unlucky bugger to be hit by a pro, but the odds are vastly against it. Put good dead bolts into your home with 4" long screws securing the strike plate into the door frame. The little pri......err ah prankster will be limping down the street at 2:30 in the afternoon with a sprained ankle and you'll have a dirty Nike print on your back door.

/\ Spot on /\

Commerical burglaries occur at night. RESIDENTIAL Burglaries occur in the DAYTIME!

Install good deadbolt locks, install them correctly and USE THEM.

 

[Bret4207]

I echo what L Ross says- your burglar/thief is most likely to be someone you know/your family knows/a family member, under 25ish, with a rep for being a "great guy". They used to be teenageers, now "the teens" run up well past 25 years of age. 2nd most likely is your older bum relative or the guy you hired to do something at the house. 3rd is the methhead/crackpot/gotstogetbreadformyweeddude type. The pros are few and far between and your average "gun safe" from TSC or Dicks is a bother, but not much of one for them. I have 2 Cannons, they aren't even inside the house, and there's no room for handguns in them. I really like the idea of the vault room in the basement, but that basement has to be purpose built and bone dry. That's not a sure thing for a lot of people.

At one point I had a wire cable run through all the trigger guards and such with a pad lock at one end. Biggest pain in the butt ever, but it gave me piece of mind during another persons crisis. My handguns live in 20mm ammo cans with locks. Not real easy to get to fast!

 

[david s]

What's the old saying, locks only keep honest people honest. As noted, gun safes are a delaying tactic. They do offer peace of mind from a common break in. If the thief shows up with dollies to roll your loaded safe out, or metal saws, torches and out sized pry bars, then not too much is going to stop them. All you can do is slow them down.