Gun safes

[Kevin Stenberg]

The reason for my purchase is from new news to me from my CC Instructor. He said that in Minn unless you have gone above and beyond in storing your firearms. If they are stolen from your property, you are Libal for any damage that weapon caused. If it is used in a robbery or if the thief shoots somebody. You are libal.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The reason for my purchase is from new news to me from my CC Instructor. He said that in Minn unless you have gone above and beyond in storing your firearms. If they are stolen from your property, you are Libal for any damage that weapon caused. If it is used in a robbery or if the thief shoots somebody. You are libal.

I would need to see the actual law. That sounds like hyperbole. What constitutes "above and beyond"?
There would have to be some specific, clearly defined standard of proper storage and even then, I think the lawful owner would be shielded from liability unless they were downright reckless in the manner in which they secured the firearm.

Now, that being said, and potential civil actions being set aside for the moment - It's just a basic good idea to secure firearms. They are items highly prone to theft. It's a good practice in general to prevent unauthorized access and guns are valuable.



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[Bret4207]

The reason for my purchase is from new news to me from my CC Instructor. He said that in Minn unless you have gone above and beyond in storing your firearms. If they are stolen from your property, you are Libal for any damage that weapon caused. If it is used in a robbery or if the thief shoots somebody. You are libal.

First off ask your CC instructor where he got his info and if it's civil or criminal law. If it's criminal, find the section and look at the language. If it's criminal your state gun rights assoc. may have better info on it and what the actual requirements are. If it's civil then all bets are off. Civil law is more about emotion than fact many times. Holding a person responsible for what a criminal does with property stolen from someone else sounds civil to me. But these days who knows.

There are a lot of "experts" out there that don't have the vaguest idea what they are talking about.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

This is the only Minnesota criminal statute I can find on gun storage:

609.666 NEGLIGENT STORAGE OF FIREARMS.
§Subdivision 1. Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following words have the meanings given.
(a) "Firearm" means a device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion or force of combustion.

(b) "Child" means a person under the age of 18 years.

(c) "Loaded" means the firearm has ammunition in the chamber or magazine, if the magazine is in the firearm, unless the firearm is incapable of being fired by a child who is likely to gain access to the firearm.

Subd. 2.Access to firearms. A person is guilty of a gross misdemeanor who negligently stores or leaves a loaded firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely to gain access, unless reasonable action is taken to secure the firearm against access by the child.
Subd. 3.Limitations. Subdivision 2 does not apply to a child's access to firearms that was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry.

As for civil law concerning the lawful owner's liability after theft..... I am highly suspicious that the rightful owner would be responsible for the actions of another after a criminal act deprived the owner of the actual possession of the gun.
Would a plaintiff's attorney appeal to the emotions of a jury? Sure, they would, but that emotion doesn't trump the law.

The bottom line is: It is always a good idea to properly secure firearms.

 

[Hawk]

Hell, torches, metal saws, out sized pry bars, a dolly, battery operated power tools, grinders, reciprocating saws, drills, etc. are in most of our garages.
What's a fella to do?
I just hope it slows them down till the alarm gets the police here.

 

[Bret4207]

Alarm Hawk? You mean like a burglar alarm?

 

[Snakeoil]

Here is my suggestion for a gun safe. It is based upon the premise that have kept magicians working for hundreds of years. It's all about illusion.

Go find a clapped out vertical freezer. Gut it and make the inside into a gun cabinet. Leave the light socket and jumper the door switch or just rewire the socket so it is always on and put a 15 w bulb or reptile heater inside to drive out moisture.

Most freezers I've seen have a key lock. You can use that if you want. Or, if no key lock, put a hasp and padlock on the door.

Now, make a list of stuff that would be in a freezer with dates. You know, corn, beets, chicken, rhubarb, etc., and even cross some off. Use a few different pencils and pens so it looks like the list has been going on for a while. Now tape the list to the front of the door. Crumple it up and maybe make it a bit dirty so it looks like it's been there a long time. Then for the icing on the cake, put another big sign on the door that says "NO ICE CREAM IN HERE!".

The crooks will walk right past that freezer and never give it a second thought.

This idea came to me years ago. A friend of my Dad's was a barber and his shop got burglarized a number of times. If he could not get to the bank with the day's receipts, he would toss them on a stool in the shop and throw a towel over them. More than once they tore his place apart and never noticed the deposit bag under the towel. Hiding things in plain sight fools'em every time.

If you are buying a safe for fire protection, read the specs and you may change your mind. There is a video of a safe that was in a major house fire and they cut it open to see how things inside did. Lots of rust and such and some melted plastic and burned wood. If if were me and I had a pristine High Wall, I'd insure it and keep it in the freezer.

 

[david s]

An old girlfriend's grandmother passed away. At her home they couldn't find some of the lady's jewelry. They found it mixed with some frozen ground beef in her freezer.

 

[Rick]

Geez, these days they would head for the frozen beef before the jewelry chest.

 

[Snakeoil]

Geez, these days they would head for the frozen beef before the jewelry chest.

Yeah, for sure. Other stuff is at risk too.

I hear you had a break in?
Yup
What did they get?
Tore up the treated lumber on the deck and front porch.

 

[Ian]

Yeah, for sure. Other stuff is at risk too.

I hear you had a break in?
Yup
What did they get?
Tore up the treated lumber on the deck and front porch.

You got that right! Stole all the insulation and wiring out of the attic, too!

Since I have a shop full of things like OA torches, plasma cutters, sledge hammers, hammer drills, pry bars, rock bars, angle grinders (some with diamond wheels), hydraulic and mechanical jacks, I used to put all the consumables like torch tips IN the gun safe so as to render the hard-hitting tools immediately useless and also lock all the pry bars and cutting tools/wheels in a pro-grade tool box with locks better than my safe when on vacation. I still do, but tool accumulation has surpassed any way to realistically secure all the on-hand easy means of defeating my safe, so in goes a good security and surveillance system and a rider on the homeowners policy. I fear fire more than burglary, but to paraphrase Lao Tzu, amass enough riches and no one can protect them.

 

[Ian]

As to "hiding in plain sight", everybody knows what a fake rock and a fake cabbage looks like, but I kept a 1911 in a hollowed-out phone book on my truck dash for many years with the windows down and never had an issue. I glued the pages together with the ends of a couple of old shopping lists and notes sticking out like bookmarks to make the ohone book appear more "natural" and inconspicuous. I abandoned this practice since today, nothing looks more out of place in a late-model vehicle than a printed telephone directory.