Gunsmith needed

[FrankCVA42]

Have a 1928 Winchester 54 action in 30-30 and a 1919a4 machine gun barrel and old Winchester marksman stock. I still have the barrel stub with the proper breech face. I would like to get the barrel fitted to the 54 action and chambered for the 30-30 cartridge. The action is almost a drop in fit in the stock So I can do that myself. Would like to have the headspace shorter than it would be if used in a marlin or winchester lever action. Not getting any younger as I have had the action for close to 30 years. So any suggestions??. Thanks Frank

 

[RBHarter]

I know a guy in Conway AR but he's about a yr behind right now and in the throws of a move to a new shop .

 

[StrawHat]

You want someone local or will you ship it?

Kevin

 

[oscarflytyer]

guy here (Huntsville AL) would prob take that on. If you are willing to pay the shipping, I am happy to check with him or give you his info.

 

[FrankCVA42]

Oscar, shipping would be no problem. Which reminds me I'd better dig up the barrel stub as all the info is on it. Winchester did some cute tricks on the breech end of the barrel and has a tapered box magazine. What I want is a tapered throat 1.5 degrees so I guess 3 degrees inclusive. Action has already been drilled and tapped for a scope mount and bolt handle altered from what was on it and now has a model 70 style bolt handle. All the smith has to do is cut the 308 chamber off about 2" then thread for model 70 threads (this rifle is odd as it is a flat faced breech) cut for the extractor and bead blast and blue. And yes would appreciate the gunsmiths address. Thank you very much. Frank

 

[StrawHat]

Andy Horvath is a good gunsmith. John Taylor, on the other site, also good.

Kevin

 

[FrankCVA42]

Thanks all for responding to my request for a gunsmith on my Winchester 54 project. Very Much appreciated. The stock I mentioned is an old Winchester Marksman I bought at a local gun show. Got most of the glass bedding out as it was crumbling to pieces. About the only problem is that the tang is slightly different than a pre or post M70 Winchester. That and the floor plate is one piece of stamped steel. So the forward guard screw is in a different position. Figure a fosterner bit would clean up where the tang goes and should be able to inlet the front of the stamped trigger guard/floor plate easily. I thought Andy Horvath was a pistol smith only??. Thanks again. Frank

 

[StrawHat]

Andy does whatever is needed to put food on the table. He likes revolvers and pistols but can do it all.

Kevin

 

[quicksylver]

out of curiosity am I the only one that caught hell for having machine gun parts any parts?

 

[Cherokee]

I can recommend Andy Horvath's work. He rebuilt a Marlin 1889 in 32-20 for me and lots of different pistol work.

 

[Charles Graff]

out of curiosity am I the only one that caught hell for having machine gun parts any parts?

I can recommend Andy Horvath's work. He rebuilt a Marlin 1889 in 32-20 for me and lots of different pistol work.

I can recommend Andy Horvath's work. He rebuilt a Marlin 1889 in 32-20 for me and lots of different pistol work.

Back in the 50's and early 60's 30 cal GI machine barrels were widely available. I had ons shortened from the breech, rechambered to 308 Win and fitted to a model 98 Mauser. It was a tack driver with a 20" barrel. I had two more, but sold or traded them off. All were new never used.

 

[RBHarter]

I had a couple of rifles that if I were still in Nv and a pending suit is won will be machine guns . Appearently because short reset triggers and bump stocks could be fitted ........ I guess if a guy has a right side plate for a 1919 he's toast too whether is a semi or an auto plate doesn't matter , even if he doesn't have a 1919 .

 

[CZ93X62]

I have never understood the rationale behind the NFA restrictions on select-fire arms. That class of firearms are the most self-regulating group of arms on earth. By virtue of their ammunition appetites, only governments or sailboat-rich/bourgeois-decadent people can afford to feed them. They require CONSIDERABLE maintenance and very specific lubricants, or they break. A lot. Some crook with a go-fast won't care for it, and it will destroy itself in short order. Heck, drug dealers would spend 5 to 6 figures on some high-dollar roach coach, and never change to oil in the things. 35K miles on a nice Ferrari, and the oil looked like Bunker "C" when you pulled the dipstick. We let DEA take that one.

 

[Ian]

M1919A4s are perfectly legal Title 1 firearms in all 50 states. The A4 has an aftermarket, SA RH plate and has been converted to the 7.62 NATO cartridge and disintegrating-link belts.

 

[RBHarter]

Exactly .....

 

[FrankCVA42]

Understand the rationale behind having certain NFA parts that belong to full auto or select fire firearms. If someone would have the selector switch, trigger and disconnector for an Ar15 rifle they could in fact convert a semi auto AR to select fire. Years back these parts were wildly available. I have no desire to spend the rest of my life in the cross bar hotel. If fact I've seen more than a few articles where machinegun barrels were installed on bolt action rifles and gave good accuracy. Sportsmans Guide at one time sold the 7.62 nato barrels for about $ 50-70 bucks which is where I got mine. Israeli surplus, and haven't seen any for sale in awhile. Now having said all that, I've had the model 54 action for close to 30 years and found the old Wim M70 marksman stock at a gun show for $50. Time the two plus the barrel to be assembled into a working rifle in 30-30 to shoot cast bullets. Ideally I'd love to find a nice Remington 788 in 30-30 just for cast bullets.But I'm not getting any younger. All the local ranges are closed but my club is open with the social distancing being practised.. Which would be great except I'm in the at risk category and not willing to get the virus. Hence my desire to see this project done. In fact I'd like to find a smith who does work on British Lee enfields. Set the barrel back one full turn, recut the extractor slot and then run a 303 reamer in to recut the old British chamber. Think it would be worth it if only to see if it made a change in brass life and improve the accuracy. Frank

 

[StrawHat]

Frank,

Would one turn be enough to clean up the chamber? I know they were cut big, I just do not know how big. Really sounds like something a talented machinist with a lathe could handle.

Kevin

 

[Ian]

The .303s aren't quite that easy to set back. Doable, but lots of other stuff has to be set back the same amount.

 

[FrankCVA42]

Kevin, not as simple as it sounds. The original thread I saw was from a Canadian shooter who actually did the setback. When you remove the one complete thread you also have to set the shoulder forward a certain amount. Then set the headspace which may or may not require more adjustments with the shoulder on the barrel. Swapping bolt heads #0,#1,#2, and #3 each is supposed to be a certain amount longer than the previous numbered one. I have exactly one #3 bolt head that is longer than my #0 and #1. But have two that are shorter than what a #3 is supposed to be. Gunboards on the British rifles forum has or had a list of the different sizes of bolt heads as to what they are supposed to be and what the member measured them at. A British armorer would take a numbered bolt head after measuring the problem rifles headspace and stone or rework the bolt face to correct the headspace. So a #3 bolt head may start out at a certain length and end up shorter due to being reworked to correct the headspace on a rifle. At least that is my understanding. And the British were only concerned that the headspace was within certain limits and cartridges were only a one shot deal. And that is what the problem comes into play as the various enfields had shall we say generous chambers. Headspace may be good, but the generous chambers were made to accept cartridges that may be dirty or slightly out of spec.

And that is the problem when folks want to or already reload for the 303 cartridge. U.S. manufacturers actually have made the cartridge diameter smaller where the side walls meet the solid case head. And that is the reason when firing U.S. made 303 cartridges usually have that case bulge being fired in a generous chamber. However the European manufacturers cases have more brass in the same area. privi partisan (PPU or NNY stamped on the case head) The Greek HXP and the South African cases and the Serbian made do not show this bulge at least in my 1947 made #4MKII. While the first two European manufacturers are boxer primed and ideal for reloading. The South African is berdan primed and all are non corrosively primed. Shame about the South African 303 as it is beautiful brass and shoots well in my rifle. Jealously hoarding my last of the South African 303. Had a chance one time to get a full case of the South African 303 and like a real big dummy passed on it. I regret that to this day. I would really like to see a P14 enfield rebarreled with a match style chamber in a heavy target style barrel and see what it could really do. The barrel would be for use with .311 diameter bullets. I think Sierra offers a .311 match king bullet in this size. There was a truly excellent post or posts on the Gunboards forum British Rifles regarding the use of flat based MKVII bullet versus the boat tailed bullet used in the MKVIIIZ loadings. If you get the time well worth searching for and reading. I apologize for this lengthy post. Didn't intend for it to be this long. Frank

 

[Rushcreek]

This sounds like a very neat project. I have a few questions for you, does the flat breech face of the barrel stub feature an extractor slot? Does the model 54 action feature a stop ring for the breech end of the barrel? Headspacing for the datum line on the shoulder is probably easily accomplished, even if the original headspace was on the cartridge rim.
The Israeli Barrel should be of very high quality. Good luck with your project!