H&R single shot .....

[RBHarter]

First a confession , I have occasional fits of "singles are cools" usually sparked by some falling block or another , built like a tank vs whatever it's chambered for . I like tanks . I just can't warm up to them as a field gun ...... although I did fall into the O/U vs pump trap and become a "fowl snob" .

Dad got a little unexcentric I guess towards his end perhaps wanting or believing he had a need to share something I loved ........ To that Mom drug out a couple of rifles she wasn't sure about . The 6.5 Arisaka bent bolt sportered bubba stock doesn't hold much interest for me but the H&R 30-30 does a little . I don't know why it does or if it will even shoot for beans .

Pluses , OAL dictated by lands , pointy bullets ok , I have a gaggle of 30 cal moulds from 93-230 gr and a paper patch mould . PB base will get me into jacket speeds with 150s in the Savage so this shouldn't be much different .

Twists did HR lean more towards 10s or 12s ?
There's no dt just open sights so the 230 at 1700 would be a waste really . So the 172 gr PP is probably the preferred ....... Light handy single I suspect even in 30-30 equals getting beat like a redheaded step child . That brings me to the 150-165 class .... The 312 155 should shine and might be the best over all . 3 gr of Unique or Red Dot under the 93 gr 313626(?) 32 pistol bullet should make a nice heavy 22 replacement and be pretty quiet .

How springy are the break actions ? I never worried about them with shot guns but shot shells don't stretch like bottle neck brass .

How much sizing is enough ? In the 325 I've gotten away with neck sizing in a 308 sizer for a while , short or FL , excluding die/shell holder etc , touch the shoulder or is more better and let the rim handle head space ?

Just because I'm a mental experimenter is there a name for a 30-30 AI with a short neck like the AI was done with a 7-30 Waters body ?

 

[Glaciers]

RB I would not consider the 30-30 AI at all, as you, I'm sure have a 300 Savage, 308, 30-06 or some other more powerful 30 caliber cartridge, some with a 1 - 10 twist. The shorter neck of the AI is a disadvantage to the standard 30-30, and the velocity gains you probably already have in some other cartridge.
The short little break open rifle would be fun to use with a number of cast loads.

 

[fiver]

the AI's come in all sorts of versions.
I have seen the 7x57 done in about 7 different iterations.[including the big ICL case I done mine in]

the 30-30 AI doesn't have to have a short neck, and it surely doesn't have to have all the neck length it has now.

 

[Glaciers]

I'm just saying if it not broken.........
Unless you have an itch

 

[Jeff H]

@RBHarter , I'd leave well-enough alone and not excavate the chamber looking fr an extra 100 fps. Been there with the 7x57 and the "gains" were minimal and nothing like Mr. Ackley might have led us to believe. 257 Roberts? Better but not worth it to me. Fire-forming is simple - easy. But right about now (in this famine), I'm hesitant to expend an extra primer for the sake of getting brass that's marginally "better" than factory - or what you can trip over at about any range just before deer season opens. I know some guys get that extra little bit out of it using jacketed bullets, but it's not enough to turn my head. Besides, I'd be shooting a 308 or '06 if I needed it and my messed up spine could take it.

Then, there's that whole pesky notion that a piece of 30-30 brass will last indefinitely if "Ackleyized." Sam Fadala was all about that and I'm trying to find the book in which he wrote so much about the 30-30 AI. I think it was The Rifleman's Bible, but my copy is not in my possession at the ,moment.

Item no longer available

The item you are looking for is no longer available.

www.abebooks.com

As far as break-opens being "flexy," I'm not seeing it, but then I've not invested in the instrumentation to measure whether bases are unsquare. I think if a guy were redlining a Contender with a hot-rod wildcat,..... maybe? I can't see it being an issue with the 30-30 when they chambered the H&R for much higher-pressure cartridges. Others with more experience may be seeing otherwise.

What's not to like about a single-shot, break-open 30-30 anyway? It's not like I'd shoot benchrest with it, but damned if those Handis won't shoot! I had a youth-model 223 that put five Federal 55 grain FMJs (factory loads) into less than an inch on the initial sight-in and it got better with handloads. My 30-30 Handi was a cast-bullet-only gun and shot almost as well as my Contender Carbine with a 24" MGM barrel - which is five in a half-inch (or so) at fifty yards for 118 grain through 165 grain cast - squirrel loads to deer loads.

PLUS, being your dad's gun, I'd be all about hanging onto it ans shooting it a lot. I believe that my 30-30 is the most fun gun I own, and it surely would do whatever I need to do with it to boot. I don't dilike all the other stuff, I just like my 30-30 single-shot that much.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

First a confession , I have occasional fits of "singles are cools" usually sparked by some falling block or another , built like a tank vs whatever it's chambered for . I like tanks . I just can't warm up to them as a field gun ...... although I did fall into the O/U vs pump trap and become a "fowl snob" .

Dad got a little unexcentric I guess towards his end perhaps wanting or believing he had a need to share something I loved ........ To that Mom drug out a couple of rifles she wasn't sure about . The 6.5 Arisaka bent bolt sportered bubba stock doesn't hold much interest for me but the H&R 30-30 does a little . I don't know why it does or if it will even shoot for beans .

Pluses , OAL dictated by lands , pointy bullets ok , I have a gaggle of 30 cal moulds from 93-230 gr and a paper patch mould . PB base will get me into jacket speeds with 150s in the Savage so this shouldn't be much different .

Twists did HR lean more towards 10s or 12s ?
There's no dt just open sights so the 230 at 1700 would be a waste really . So the 172 gr PP is probably the preferred ....... Light handy single I suspect even in 30-30 equals getting beat like a redheaded step child . That brings me to the 150-165 class .... The 312 155 should shine and might be the best over all . 3 gr of Unique or Red Dot under the 93 gr 313626(?) 32 pistol bullet should make a nice heavy 22 replacement and be pretty quiet .

How springy are the break actions ? I never worried about them with shot guns but shot shells don't stretch like bottle neck brass .

How much sizing is enough ? In the 325 I've gotten away with neck sizing in a 308 sizer for a while , short or FL , excluding die/shell holder etc , touch the shoulder or is more better and let the rim handle head space ?

Just because I'm a mental experimenter is there a name for a 30-30 AI with a short neck like the AI was done with a 7-30 Waters body ?

Just shoot it as is!!

These ol H&R 158/258 aint safe for souping up anyhow the lug is silver soldered on.

The Newer SB series of guns got welded lugs and they can handle the 308/30/06 class
BUT, IMHO they are best kept to RIMMED CASES and pressures about 40K.

The 22 Hormet, 357 Mag Max and 30/30 along with the 45/70 top That list!!

Have fun and respect it. If ya like a souoed up SS get a Ruger No1 or 3!
CW

 

[CZ93X62]

I am VERY FOND of the 30/30 Winchester. I like it in OEM form, it is about as perfect a package for its intended role as has ever come along. With castings it can match velocities with jacketed bullets and retain accuracy. If you go jacketed, it is simple tech to make controlled-expansion bullets via the old cup & core method and have them hold together on impact. The Rooskies and ChiComs equip their soldiers with small arms of similar power, the 7.62 x 38 Soviet. The 30/30 has a lot to offer in box-stock form.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

IINM I have read it here the 30/30 -30/40 are about as perfect a cast bullet case as can be had....

CW

 

[Missionary]

We have been considering a Henry SS in 30-30 and ream it to 30-40. I must admit I do like the old 30 Gov !

 

[RBHarter]

The 30-30 stretch alteration was just a whimsy .
Dad bought this late in 2015 and passed in 2018 . I doubt he even shot it . Mom isn't ready to give me back the JM 1894C 38/357 I gave him as a gift swap for the 74' Belgian A5 ........ We spent more time with the M12 and the 25-06' maybe I'll get some pics next time it's out .

I'm just thinking about fire form and segregation really . The Savage 325 lets me "scoop a case full of 4350 shake it down to the bottom of the neck" and shoot the 312-155 2100 fps so not much call for hopping it up from actually the jacketed start load when it's almost at the jacketed max speed already . If it's a 1-10 I might be able to get that 230 to work , length being no object , for a big hit low push kind of load . About 1600 is all I need for about anything we might encounter down here .

l think it will make a good one for the Grandson . 7 grands and I got 1 G son ....... maybe one of the girls who knows .

 

[Ian]

My 1 in 12 Savage 219 would fling NOE 247s to minute-of-cowpie on the 100 yard berm with 7 grains of Unique. Never put it on paper, some things happen to work sometimes even though they shouldn't and no need to spoil the fun with analytics if they do.

 

[CZ93X62]

To paraphrase Huck Finn--"I don't take much stock in mathematics anyway."

 

[RicinYakima]

RB, make sure the locking lug and recess are oil and grease free. Dry is perfect and yes they are springy if the lug is slipping and sliding.

 

[Ian]

RB, make sure the locking lug and recess are oil and grease free. Dry is perfect and yes they are springy if the lug is slipping and sliding.

Hmm. Oops. Supposed to be DRY? I've always made a great effort to keep the locking mechanism and hinge pin coated in the heaviest, most sticky, EP grease I could find. So the Good Idea faery has steered me wrong? Rifle never has shot worth a damn, could be why?

 

[RicinYakima]

My story. I bought a 7.62 x 39 about 15 years ago to shoot cast bullets in for plinking. Never shot well with anything I loaded or bought. Researching a link from the 1980's, maybe 5 years ago, I found an article that said the two no-no's were poorly bedded butt stocks and grease on the locking lug. I had tried everything on Grey Beard Outdoors, maybe twenty things and rebedded the forend until it was just a shell.

Bedded the butt stock action joint with JB and wiped the grease off the lug and barrel. It now shoots 1 1/4" at 100 with # 31141's and 10 grains of 2400. FWIW

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Hmm. Oops. Supposed to be DRY? I've always made a great effort to keep the locking mechanism and hinge pin coated in the heaviest, most sticky, EP grease I could find. So the Good Idea faery has steered me wrong? Rifle never has shot worth a damn, could be why?

Its a cause of pop opens with some loads. Almost always found a oild latch.

Ill best it has something to do with that!!

I had a 500 that was aweful. Accuracu I mean. Stout recoil too. I switched the factory latch spring to one I REALLY had to press to open and accuracy improved greatly!!
CW

 

[Missionary]

I have to ask.... Is this also true with H&R shotguns ? Other single shot rifles ? What about Contenders ???
I have been greasing lugs all my hunting life.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have always kept mine dry. Since the problems with the H&R's...

CW

 

[4060MAY]

my BIL has an 1871 H&R 45-70, last couple of matches he could not hit anything, while spotting for him I saw the action jump open, removed all the oil and he held the action for the one match, score improved 100%
on jis action ther is a button covering a hole, I thought it was plastic, not so, steel, had to drill it out, this hole is to set the engagement of the lug, I GENTLY stoned the lug on the barrel for more engagement and now it's fine, thru the hole the spring loaded lug has two marks, to set the engagement of the barrel lug

if you want to do the trigger, there s a .pdf around on the internet

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

if you want to do the trigger, there s a .pdf around on the internet

BIG NOTE HERE!!!

Parts aint as easy to get now.

Parts are SURFACE hardened.

IF YOU GO GRIND THRU that hardness you will end up with "Ever changing trigger syndrome".

POLISH, dont GRIND!!!

Links to this are Perklo and available on the GBO site. Handi head quarters.
CW