Had an argument(discussion) about reloading

rodmkr

Temecula California
At the range yesterday for an hour to test a couple of loads.
Met a man who says shooting cast is a waste of time as you can never get any accuracy.
Conversation finally settled down to reloading and COAL.
I have always set my cast bullets to just touch the lans.
He said you need to have them as much as 40 thousandths off the lans.
What do you normally use for set back or do you use any?

rodmkr
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
My match bullets I set .010" to .020" into the lands, so they engrave. I want the nose of the bullet to center in the bore. Plinkers and hunting bullets are usually at zero so I can eject a case.
a.JPG

Doesn't look too bad for ten shots at 100 with iron sights.
 
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Dusty Bannister

Well-Known Member
While I am certainly not an experienced competitor, I try for nearly touching the lands so the round will not have the bullet pulled if I need to extract it from the chamber. While you did not mention if you are shooting a rifle or hand gun, I will also add that for revolvers, some will load the round a little long to begin to enter the reduction in the cylinder to improve the seal when fired. The contenders I shoot do best when just touching the lands but not forced into the lands.

Semi-auto handguns may have enough slide velocity to force the nose into the lands, but that can be a problem so just off the lands will probably be a better setting.

Some competition shooters will have a slightly loose neck condition so that when chambering the cartridge the bullet is snug against the lands and held snug as the bolt is closed. Some like to force the bullet into the lands for best support and guidance when fired.

The firearm will always tell you what will shoot best of any of the above practices and you have not even mentioned conventional lube, powder coated, or tumble lubed bullets. I am not sure that there is any ONE method that is best across the board. But I did give you a lot of options to try. Dusty
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
For cast bullets, I load to "light jam fit", so the bullet stands against the lands, but the cartridge can be extracted without decomposing. With jacketed, I often have around 40 thou jump. Or more, with short bullets like 100grs 6,5 bullets.
In my opinion, short bullet jump with jx is overrated as a means of improving accuracy. Good bullet grip can be just as important.
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I am always amazed at how much knowledge people who never shoot cast have about shooting cast.

Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Not sure who first said that but boy were they right.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I am always amazed at how much knowledge people who never shoot cast have about shooting cast......

I'm OK with that. The fewer people scrounging lead, the better. You sort out the really worthwhile people when it comes to casting, not that all those who don't are idiots, but you sure find the ones who are fast and then know who to ignore.

I'll assert that this fella is not only under-inforemed about cast bullets, but in general terms of reloading as well. Certainly this affliction is not localized and you can bet he'd have fallacial arguments ready for about any topic. I've gotten a lot less patient and tolerant of that in the past few years and let them go on their merry way to eventually figure it out - or not. I'd rather shoot, hand-load, cast or just about anything else than argue about it - and spend my time mentoring someone who is open to experimentation without prejudice.

I'll TRY cast bullets barely engraving, or jacketed a "few" thousandths off the lands initially but that's just a starting point. From there, the rifle and the bullet will tell me which way to go. I've not found a lot of the "musts" to be truly absolute in these matters and have chased a lot of wild geese trying to conform to conventional wisdom.

Besides, I think with "wild geese," steel shot IS a must and I'm not going there.;)
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
you know some bullets are designed to have rifling engraved over 70% of their length just on the nose.
they generally start out with about 35% of the bullet in the rifling and you got no other choice but to do it that way.
others can't reach the rifling without falling out of the case.
that's a matter of rifle umm rifle condition.

the great thing about shooting cast is you can take a worn out [pile of junk] rifle and extend it's useful life about 50K more rounds.
 

dannyd93140

New Member
30 years ago I would argue, but now I talk them into buying the expensive jacketed bullets. Them I keep on shooting my inexpensive cast bullets. :)
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I don't argue with people like that most especially after I get the usual line of . . . You'll ruin your barrel. I just tell them that I'm glad they got it all figured out but I'm one of those guys that likes to see for myself but hey, thanks for the warning.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Look back in the old posts on this forum, The Reloaders Network forum, or YouTube for videos by Waco, or Coates Brothers Firearms (all the same guy- he's known as "Waco" here). Show your next round of "experts" what Walter & his brother are doing with cast, especially at long range.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
All my cast bullets are set "into the lands" when I develop my loads on my rifle ...always! For some reason ( never has happened yet) I can always back them out to improve accuracy of the load...but as I said Never had to
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
As far a magazine feed I pay no attention I use all my rifles single shot! I just need one to feed and once it is in the chamber it is going to go down range one way or another. I shoot target only and I will never extract an unfired case....(Probably can't without a mess)
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Controlled feed in my stable with unmodified extracation .

Not a problem with push feed examples .
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
As I shoot lever guns more than bolt guns, cartridge overall length and whether or not the bullet is engraved by the lands is governed by making sure I have at least .015" clearance between bullet nose and chamber mouth when the cartridge elevator lifts the cartridge from magazine level to chamber level.

With the few bolt guns, I do try to get a very slight engraving of the lands, but just enough so that I know the bullet is indexed to the bore.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
I've been known to try it any which way till I get it to perform acceptable to me. 20 off to in is usually the window.
 
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Ian

Notorious member
Yup. Seating depth is a tool to manipulate powder. Burn curve and balance out dynamic fit with the alloy type.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Yup. Seating depth is a tool to manipulate powder. Burn curve and balance out dynamic fit with the alloy type.
Yup. Seating depth is a tool to manipulate powder. Burn curve and balance out dynamic fit with the alloy type.


Pretty much what I was going to say, only in clearer, more lyrical terms. As far as the "cast is junk"crowd, ignore them. A big part of their problem is plain old ignorance and the rest is pride, and you know what they say about pride...
 

Ian

Notorious member
The period between "powder" and "burn" was a fone keyboard typo that lead to an automatic double-space and capitalization.