"Handguns" Section Needs CPR

[CZ93X62]

This part of the site must have caught COVID-19 or SARS, or something. So, here goes.

Saturday was the Quals day for us old retired (EXPLETIVE DELETED)s. I got my tickets re-upped for both rollers and bottom-feeders, and I used my S&W Model 642 (2" 38 Special) and SIG-Sauer P-220 (45 ACP) for this purpose. These are my two most-carried arms of late, and I opted for the 45 over the 40 S&Ws and 9mms because it is the lightest and easiest-to-conceal of the my full-sized self-loaders, as are its spare magazines. The 642 is by some distance my smallest carry gun, and usually goes into a trouser pocket.

I am deeply-enamored with the 45 ACP. It is now over 110 years old, and its reputation as a goblin-stopper is unfaded by time's passage. I was very happy to see it get chosen as my old shop's primary autopistol caliber when they elected to join the 20th Century (better late than never) in early 1987. There has always been a 45 ACP in my safe since c. 1980, and three currently reside therein. So after some dabbling with the 40 S&W and 9mm for the past few years, it's back to the 45 ACP as my primary carjacker repellent.

 

[Ian]

I think it was the bird flu.

Between growing up reading Cooper's Corner and being forced to use my 1911 for realsies once, I couldn't agree more with your estimation of the .45 ACP.

 

[fiver]

I always get questioned when the issue of ammo for s.d. comes up on other sites.
apparently my answer of a 225gr. rnfp catches others off guard.
BUT?
no but,,, soft and flat, two holes.
tested on 200 lb. animals out to about 50yds. more than once.

 

[RicinYakima]

The 45 ACP is still the best for interpersonal relationships, except for high explosives.

 

[CZ93X62]

For certain, what's not to like about H/E?

 

[Petrol & Powder]

For certain, what's not to like about H/E?

Well, the damage of perfectly functional infrastructure but sometimes you have to accept some collateral damage when improving the gene pool.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, jokes about high explosives aside;

The SIG P-220 in 45 ACP deserves some recognition for its history. The Swiss had their outstanding Model 49 (P-210) but by the 1970's they were in search of a replacement. In true Swiss engineering fashion, they made a pretty big leap forward. The P-75 (AKA P-220) was a remarkably advanced design for its day.
While the Swiss P-75 was a single stack, 9mm pistol; it incorporated a lot of advanced engineering. Some of it is easy to take for granted now in 2021 but in 1975, the P-75 was like the jet age overtaking piston engines.

Full length internal guide rails on an aluminum alloy frame.
A stamped steel slide with a separate breach block and nose piece. (the nose was welded in but the breach block was removable)
A DA/SA action with a de-cocker and passive firing pin safety.
And barrel to slide locking utilizing a squared ejection port and a square cross section of the barrel. (now copied by everyone and their brother).

Although originally designed as a 9mm service pistol for the Swiss, the design was so good that it was easily adapted to multiple variations, including the single stack 45 ACP models that are familiar to U.S. users. In the early 1980's if you wanted a DA pistol chambered in 45 ACP, your choices were rather slim. S&W introduced the model 645 in 1985. Prior to that, your choices for a DA 45 ACP pistol in the U.S. were the SIG P-220 (or Browning BDA) and the H&K P9S in 45 ACP (good luck finding one of those )

The P-220 fathered lots of offspring, including the double stack, full size 9mm P-226 and its smaller brother the P-228. My favorite is the single stack compact P-225, known in former West German Police parlance as the P6.

The 45 ACP Cartridge gets a lot of attention here in the U.S.A. (and rightfully so) but the P-220 (P-75) deserves some recognition for being a trailblazer.

 

[dale2242]

I love my P220.
Nearly as much as a 1911.

 

[L Ross]

CPR? Catch, Photo, Release? For Handguns?

 

[Winelover]

No 45 ACP's in this household. Too large/heavy for everyday carry. Wouldn't have a SA for CC, either.

 

[Rick]

 

[Brad]

A 45 is never a bad choice.

I own a few, a 45 ACP, a single and double action 45 Colt, a 45 Colt lever action, and 3 different 45-70.

All so easy to load for.

 

[Winelover]

Only one 45LC, here. Cindy's hunting BH. Only purchased it because I sort of fell into it. Friend had a FFL and got a deal on three. Asked me if I wanted one for the princely sum of $160 NIB. Cindy needed a handgun to hunt deer in Michigan's shotgun only area. Michigan had just opened that area up to straight walled handgun cartridges. Rest is history.



Photo from 1988

 

[Rick H]

I am embarrassed to admit that I no longer own a 45ACP pistol. Having carried a Series 70 Government model on duty till forced to abandon the single action auto, then two Sig Saur P220's (one carried and one as a spare). I sold all of them when I retired. I make do with a 40 S&W for EDC and feel it is barely adequate. The effectiveness of a 45 cal. 200-255 gr. bullet at 800-900 fps is legendary.

 

[Bruce Drake]

I am embarrassed to admit that I no longer own a 45ACP pistol. Having carried a Series 70 Government model on duty till forced to abandon the single action auto, then two Sig Saur P220's (one carried and one as a spare). I sold all of them when I retired. I make do with a 40 S&W for EDC and feel it is barely adequate. The effectiveness of a 45 cal. 200-255 gr. bullet at 800-900 fps is legendary.

You can duplicate that 200gr bullet and speed in a 40 S&W (It also isn't my preferred caliber but it can get the job done also) as a reloader.

 

[RBHarter]

For what its worth the business end of a 900 fps 180 isn't really someplace I want to be .

I have a couple of 45 ACPs , they take 6 round clips , an ugly carbine too .
A 45 S&W and Colts in pistols and a couple of Colts Carbines .
Antiques by age or design every one of them .

 

[JonB]

I always get questioned when the issue of ammo for s.d. comes up on other sites.
apparently my answer of a 225gr. rnfp catches others off guard.
BUT?
no but,,, soft and flat, two holes.
tested on 200 lb. animals out to about 50yds. more than once.

I can't remember if you said you helped JT with the design of the HM² 455-200 RF ? (I stumbled into a used mold year ago, I might have mentioned it?), I haven't shot any yet, but I recently cast a bunch for a friend (for his 45acp in a 1911), I used some soft scrap (9 Bhn) alloy and they weighed 205gr. I sized them in the Star (.452 and used SL68B.)

The Round part seems to mirror the old military ball ammo for 45acp.
do you have any comments I can share with my friend?

 

[oscarflytyer]

For certain, what's not to like about H/E?

also helps 'hide' the evidence! lol

 

[oscarflytyer]

Carry a S&W Shield 45 (more often than not, these days). Number of 1911 45s. Couple SA 45 Colts, and one is a convertible BH for ACP. And then there is fav 45 ACP fun gun of all - Smith 1917 Revolver! I love that thing. I am a big 45 fan (2x 45-70s too! lol)

 

[fiver]

that 200gr. bullet is kind of a copy of the 225 I use,, which was intended for the 45 colt.
it's objective is to use a little less lead of course, but it is oh so close to what you'd expect from the 45 schofield round from a revolver in a semi-auto platform because of the little bit of extra speed.

just to put it in perspective, it's basically the big brother to the HM-2 9mm mold, where the rear part of the nose is actually a bore ride to engagement transition section to help center the bullet in the barrel.

I tend to seat my auto loader ammo shorter than others do, and that little transition helps center the bullet, plus the newer non throat having guns tend to accept that type bullet better when feeding if the roll over to the front drive band isn't too large.

I had a long debate with mooseman about the nose design for the 9mm version when we were working it out.
he insisted on a full round nose design to try and market the bullet to the full auto guy's, I insisted on the flat point for other various reasons [one of which is they feed just as good as the round nose designs due to there being a feed ramp and that nose being able to ride right up it]

also the nose shape allows a guy to taper crimp and feed it in their 45/357 lever rifle, something a straight RN type can't do as easily with it's longer profile, and shape.