Happy 1911

Ian

Notorious member
I have a TiRant45 in paperwork, and a DW 5" Vigil with threaded bbl from factory and a drop in threaded
bbl for S&W M&P45. Just waiting. :)

Bill

Go ahead and fit a threaded barrel to one of your 1911s. After you compare the two you will throw away the one for your M&P, especially if you shoot it wet. Don't even waste your time putting a can on a Glock.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Will, those are most definitely partakes lip wadcutter mags. That is almost all you see for sale these days.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
The DW Vigil is a 1911, bought specifically for this application. Factory high sights and threaded bbl.

Yes, Will all parallel lip mags. The shooting star McComack followers are a copy of the original Devel
collapsing follower, which squashes flat and gives JUST ENOUGH room for an extra round, making those 8
round magazines.
The polymer, rounded followers were first seen on Wilson magazines (high quality) and are a molded
copy of the follower design I first saw on Laka 5 round target magazines in about 1980. Within a couple
of years, Laka was no more. Rumors were that "he died", so I assume that there was a Mr. Laka somewhere.
Apparently he had contracted with a metal forming company called MetalForm to make the mags that
he was selling. After the Laka mags were gone for a couple of years (allegedly due to the death of a
small business owner) Metalform started marketing a few magazines under their own name with the
identical removable base and 3D folded and spot welded follower as the absolutely unique at that time
Laka mags. Since they were obviously exactly the same magazines, but with the long follower tail,
which restricted the capacity to 5 rds (useful for Bullseye shooters) no longer part of the design, I assume that
they decided that they were set up for making a product, but had lost the distributor, so decided to
distribute the mags themselves under their own name. It fits with the rumors of the death of the original
entrepreneur story I had heard. Of course, my friends and I immediately pulled our 5 round Laka mags apart and
trimmed the follower tail to permit 7 rds.
Metalform has been a force in magazine making, steadily advancing over the last 30 years, adding more
models and designs, but all parallel lips, all that they have ever made, even the Lakas. It was quite
clear from their identical single original design and very narrow (almost had to beg them to get them) marketing
in the middle 80s, that their primary business was some other sort of metal forming. It seems that they
basically fell into this business. But a whole lot of suppositions in all that. I'd love to talk to an old Metalform
guy who knows the whole story.
Wilson recognized the excellence of the Laka/Metalform follower design, and copied it in polymer. They
are good, but the soft plastic lock back ledge can eventually wear out on the polymer type. The Laka/Metalform
folded 3D followers are some of the most reliable for lockback. Some mags will override the lockback tab due to
sloppy follower fit with the normal type of flat followers.

Bill
 
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Ian

Notorious member
WC 8-rounders with polymer follower and hybrid lips are my favorite. Good to know about the holdback step wearing out, I'll keep an eye on that.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
HMM. Who makes that kind of mag? IME, pretty much only Colt mags have been hybrid lips,
and I am not aware of them using that follower. Not that I know all mags, for sure, but I'd like
to know if anyone else is making hybrid lip mags.

Bill
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Within the last year -- maybe, possibly, perhaps, longer -- didn't I read in another 1911 magazine thread that Colt's are made by Check-Mate?
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I do believe Colt mags are made by Check-mate. My hybrid mags are all Check-mate and marked as such.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I THINK, some are made by Metalform. I do believe that Colt has had many made by Checkmate, too.
I think Colt shops around and uses different suppliers. There is a letter stamped on the Colt mag floor
plate which is different from different models. I take it to be a manufacturer's mark. Some are marked with
an M. But, maybe that is wrong, just a guess. Maybe M for Metalform and C for Checkmate ( and S for SS?)

The top one has a McCormack Shooting Star collapsible follower, and as marked, is for 8 rounds.
All 3 have early release, hybrid lips. Another possibility for "M" is Mecqar, but I have some from them and
these mags do not look like their details. Of course, they may make Colt mags differently than all other
of their 1911 mags....but I doubt they would create separate tooling for mags not sold to Colt.

Colt mag markings small.jpg
 
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Ian

Notorious member
I just looked, guess they're wadcutter mags after all. Anyway, the feed everything well IME.

I missed that the DW was threaded, you'll love it with the can. The Miranda is nice, too, but a tad louder than the larger, heavier cans unless wet, then it sounds like a water balloon busting on the ground.
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
So, creosote, you have another (I assume) maker, "G" code, of 8 rd Colt mags. That is a McCormick Shooting Star mag
follower, the collapsing kind to squeeze in the 8th round.

And I stand corrected. Some early Metalform mags were also hybrid lips. See the pix.

Here are some shots of two Laka mags and two Metalform mags from a few years after Lakas became
unavailable.

Removable bases. IFAIK, the only ones ever made at that point for 1911 with removable bases. The excellent
3 D follower requires the base to be removable to assemble and disassemble it.

Laka & Metalform - bases.jpg

The lock back feature is extremely positive. And note that the Lakas (rear two) have more precisely fitted followers, that to not
tend to overrotate at the top. Both work extremely reliably. The Metalform mags have a slightly greater radius of the
side sheet metal at the front top. Of no real consequence, AFAIK.

Laka & Metalform - followers.jpg

And here are the feed lips. Note that the Lakas are parallel lips but the later (middle 80s) Metalform (very early Metalform)
have hybrid lips. I wonder if they were making Colt mags a this point or whether they got some genuine Colt mags and
copied them?

Laka & Metalform - followers top.jpg

Lakas on the right. Nothe that one has a cracked feed lip. I regretted losing that mag. I will see if, now that
I have access to a very high grade of heliarc welder, I can weld it. I have successfully welded similar cracks on
other mags. 7 amps max setting.

One other change that Metalform made. The Laka mag body weld was on the right rear corner. And that is where
the feed lip cracked on that one. The later Metalform marked mags have the body weld at the centerline on the
back. You can just barely tell on the right corner of the second mag from the right, bottom picture that there
is a touch of weld bead in the rt corner, making it different from the left corner.

Perhaps you can see how I came to assume that Metalform was the supplier for the Laka mags. IMO, the bases
were made on the same tooling,unless someone went to an amazing amount of trouble to duplicate it exactly. And
the same thing for the followers, they appear to be precisely the same.

These mags have fed many thousands of rounds. Used to have rubber base pads to protect them when ejected
several times a match onto a concrete floor.

Bill
 
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creosote

Well-Known Member
Bill, yup, those both came with a "stainless enhanced" colt.
In this picture the two on the right are factory colt.
The two to the left are McCormick. From the late 90's also. The only difference I can see are, CM's have larger numberd round count holes, (one more though)
Colts have heat discoloration at the base. From the spot welds.
I think that's what it is?
And the electro weld down the back looks a little different.
But that could just be the set up of the welder.
The one on the left is a CM. 10 rounder. 1556052311344290081458.jpg
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Yep, the fine details like the rear corner shape depth of cutout, corner radius (or not), weld location,
etc all tell a story. Looks like Colt specified the precise floorplate logo, typeface, etc or maybe even supplied
the floor plates, and McCormick made them for Colt. And not hybrid lips as are normal for most Colt
marked magazines.

I also looked at a fairly recent Metalform, with plastic removable floorplate and it has hybrid lips.

And one clearly made by Metalform, SS 3D folded, spot welded follower but carbon steel body, the
only CS bodied mags I have ever seen with the Metalform 3D follower. Marked Crown City Arms on
the floorplate, also carbon steel, but all clearly made on the same early Metalform pattern, and parallel
lips. These very early Metalform followers were ground to precise contour on the front rounded portion,
and fit the mags very precisely. Later ones are just folded, slightly shorter front to back, so a bit sloppier
in fit, tend to ride up at the front when empty, but the early ground, close fitted ones to not. Their followers
are very precisely fitted, no wobbling at all.

Interesting that my 8 rd Colt ss mag with the McCormick follower has a "C" code and yours has a "G" code.
And mine has a rear corner area which is different from your four McC mags, deeper cutout, angled sides
coming to a absolute point at the top where the lip starts. Your rear cutout has vertical sides and a little
45 angle over to the lip at the top. Different maker, almost certainly, but with the SS McC follower.

Bill
 
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creosote

Well-Known Member
Thanks a lot for nuthin.
I was content at just looking for ww11 era 1911 mags, p38, high power, luger, etc. Now I'm going to have to leave even earlier for the next gun show.:)
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Do the slow cycling test. Many 1911s will feed with almost any mags. Others are picky, esp
with different off milspec ammo, like is common these days. With JRN you can use almost
any mag in most guns.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I went to a local gun show in Feb.
One table had a fair number of magazines. Only one had GI feed lips. It came home with me after I parted with 15 bucks. It wasn’t new but was in good shape.
 

creosote

Well-Known Member
Brad, I'd be kicking myself later on if didn't get that.
And besides, I'm sure there's a very old law that states; you paid to get in, you have to go home with something.
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Some days you get lucky, Brad. I got lucky a few years back at a gun show.

I was picking through a cigar box filled with "misc gun junk" at a small VFW gun show
about 10 years back and came across a 1911 mag, nickeled. Clearly an after-the-fact nickel
plating job, over standard milspec slightly rough surface finish, but upon closer inspection, it was a GI
tapered full length lip mag, so I was interested, got it for $10. When I got it home, stripped it and
cleaned it......and noticed that there were two little round circles at the bottom on the side..... This is a
early Colt factory mag, certainly before WW2. I can't find a good source for when they stopped
milling out the floor plates from about 3/16" plate with four loops so that they could be pinned on to
the bodies with a pin in front and a pin in back, but a long time ago. Most are unaware of this
kind of floorplate exists. This is the drawing from the official US Government 1911A1 drawing set, and
this print is dated 1928.

pinned floorplate drawing-small.jpg

In any case, nickeled mags are, IME, the slickest feeding of ALL mags. So this one, as ancient as it
is, is the one in the my carry gun every day, because it is SO slick, SO smooth.
I have a few Colt nickled mags from the 90s, and they are very slick feeders, too.
IMO, if some maker put nickel plating on their mags, it would be an upgrade due to very
low friction, feeding and sliding into the frame and dropping out when empty.

Bill
 
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creosote

Well-Known Member
I scored these two identical mags a few years back for the grand total of ten bucks also.
They look good next to the remington rand. 15562775870102033907729.jpg