Has anyone cast hbwc?

Tom

Active Member
#1
I ordered a 38 148 gr hbwc mold from noe. I like shooting hollow base for plinking. I guess I could just try pure pb, 40 to 1, and ww and see what works best, but I thought I'd ask here.
I'm thinking pure wouldn't fill out well, so maybe a bit of tin added? Given the hollow base, maybe ww would obturate enough?
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
#2
the factory swaged ones contain 3 and 5% antimony.

40-1 will work just fine.
heat is your friend, not so much in the alloy but on that base pin and the mold temp.
 
#4
I have a couple of hollow base moulds, they are tricky. My limited testing don't tell me a lot, but they look neat. Can't say they shoot any better but that my be the shooter.
 

358156 hp

Well-Known Member
#6
If you come up with wrinkles or incomplete fillout at the base, the base pin is the most likely culprit. My hollowbase 44 mould for example had a captive base pin like the Cramer moulds did. It took forever to get the base pin hot enough. I can see that having a detachable base pin that you could heat up in the molten alloy could potentially be an advantage over the captive pin designs, but the temps would eventually even out as long as you kept plugging away until the bases were all good.
 

Tom

Active Member
#7
Thanks 358156hp. I'm hoping the noe pin design will be a bit easier to keep hot than a Cramer style. Maybe not, though, as a hbwc pin is a bit bigger than the pins on my noe HP's.
The hot plate will definitely be handy for this mould.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
#8
I have a brass M-P double and Lyman with the single removable pin . I preheat the M-P with the pins on the cast iron kettle plate . About 25 min then flip on the sprue plate about 5 min and back to the pin for a few minutes during pot warm up .
I just treat the Lyman like any other iron mould preheat sprue down . Then dip the pin maybe a lazy 10 count install and pour . I get 2-3 pours then keepers in the Lyman it takes about 5-6 in the MP . Not a HBWC a HB 462-425 @ 380 gr and a 454618 a 285 gr Minie .
 

CZ93X62

Redlands, Kalifornistan
#9
Life is too short to mess around casting HB or HP bullets. I know that borders on heresy hereabouts, but there it is there.

Minie bullets for the .58 Zouave? Fuggetaboutit, patched round ball for the win. Hollow points for hunting? Nope nope nope--Bruce B Soft Points for me. Slow to produce, but figuring scrap rate/production rate with aggravation seasoning, the BBSP is still right-side-up.
 

Rally Hess

Well-Known Member
#10
Not for me CZ. Every one of my lever guns and one bolt, all shoot the Dp version of bullets better than either Hp or flat point, from the same moulds. I can’t tell much difference casting Dp’s once I get the Mould up to temp, and usually cast three pots (Lee 20 lb.) and end up with around 46 - 47 lbs of bullets. Like Rbharder mentioned above, I rotate the Mould on my hot plate to pre-heat. Half dozen fills and drops and i’m dropping pretty bullets.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
#11
The Minie worked out well for a slow twist 45 cal ML rifle and paper patched in a Original Trapdoor with a hot Colts load for a blistering 950 fps at 285 gr .
The HB has a place especially in BP and low speed/pressure loads .

There's always the dumdum option .
I don't have a need for an HP , I have adapted alloys and loads to get me there .
 

358156 hp

Well-Known Member
#12
I do 'em all. I like a challenge... I'm kind of twisted that way. It looks like I need to take more pics. Everybody isn't here yet. I have three more waiting to go to hollowpoint mold for replacement HP stems, and two hollow base as well. Plus two others. Geez, I always have to do things the hard way, don't I?
429422av.jpg 360270-5.jpg 358156hp-2.jpg 358439.jpg idealHP-2.jpg
 

Eutectic

Active Member
#13
I have an OLD Lyman 429422 mold. I still cast with it. Yes it is slow...... Yes it has its likes and dislikes! I cast over a propane furnace and have a small opening perfect for an HP or hollow base pin. I pull the pin and put it over the opening, then open mold and dump bullet. I can keep pin at a good temp this way for perfect bases. This bullet is extremely accurate! So some things while a pain are worth the end results! I rate reloading .410 shotshells in this same category!
I also have ball point end mills and drills. I can put a cast bullet into one of my collets and hollow base it quite quick and accurately. Here's a secret for you........ The Lyman 452424 for .45 Colt is also extremely accurate in a hollow base configuration!
 

358156 hp

Well-Known Member
#14
I forgot about my RCBS 45-250-RN-HB Mould! As the name implies, it's a 250 gr (big) round-nose hollow base bullet designed for 455 Webley, IIRC. I don't currently have a launching platform for it, so it sits unused in one of my mould boxes. It's a real oddball for RCBS, and availability has always been extremely limited. Well, I happen to know where I can get my hands on a Colt New Service in 455 Eley, now I have an excuse to buy it.

Pete- I have a similar setup to yours. Mine is an orphan 4 jaw chuck for a tabletop lathe. I have it mounted on a steel plate that allows mounting it on my drill press so I can hollow-point and bullet I want to. It works best with bullet puller collets in it, holding the bullet securely. I've only used it a couple of times, primarily because of too many projects complicating my evenings. I use Dremel ball end mills, but with all the small end mill bits available in the world, the possibilities are nearly endless.
 

Eutectic

Active Member
#15
Ahh! Nothing better 358156 hp than to have a mold you need to buy a gun for!!!!!!

I think........... and have seen evidence in tests some, that a hollow base can do another thing.... Slight cylinder to barrel misalignment can be (or so it appears) somewhat compensated for with a hollow base??? I have a Colt .44 Special than continually shoots its best with hollow base... Either the 429422 or others with a hollow base added by me.

Hollow base changes balance as well. Let's look at the 148gr HBWC the original poster spoke of. VERY accurate for me in my K-38 (or about anything you try it in) But then I think the S&W twist is too slow..... (1 in 18 3/4") I see yaw with 158's best accuracy with 125's.... Especially the snubs... Might be why I've seen Colt Pythons outshoot the whole crowd...... Colt barrel's better???? Maybe the left hand twist???? Nope..... This ol' boy thinks it's twist... Colt uses 1 in 14"........
 

358156 hp

Well-Known Member
#16
When you get into 35 cal rifles a 1-16 twist is pretty common. I agree that Colts 1-14 twist is probably ideal for 38/357, this is also demonstrated by the popularity of fitting Colt barrels to other makes of revolvers to improve accuracy. The idea of 1-20 twist for 44s seems outdated as well. Who are we to argue with tradition?

Let's see, what would be the bullet RPM difference? :rofl:
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
#17
My 358 Win is pretty happy at 2100 with it's 1-14" .
The 38/357 Marlin shot everything the Sec 6 shot , better and 400 fps faster . Seems like it was a 1-16" .
 

CZ93X62

Redlands, Kalifornistan
#18
For pure accuracy to 50 yards in a handgun, the HBWC has always given me the best results--32 or 38 caliber. I had usage of a Walther GSP-C in 32 S&W Long WC for several months, and worked up a load for it using Hornady HBWCs. Miniscule amounts of WW-231 and Bullseye sent them into 25 yard chrysanthemums <1" CTC, and well under 2" at 50. I have kind of been jonesing for a GSP of my own ever since, but the tariff is a bit much for this here fixed-income reprobate. Little Sister lets me load HBWCs for her M-10/Davis barrel PPC gun, 3.0 grains of WW-231 under the Hornady 148s work perfectly for her. She is REALLY GOOD, and likes Big Brother's ammo for her practice fodder, since it dupes the Super-X W-W ammo that gets used in competitions. 200-250 per year keeps her sharp.

So I have gotten by all right with cast SWCs and raggedy Rugers, so-so S&Ws, and the occasional Colt. If I was a serious target shooter, I might go about things differently--but I would need to get GOOD at it before getting SERIOUS. Those great groups with the GSP were done in the days when I was still immortal :) and had better vision and fewer miles on the chassis and running gear. I can still tag out a badger or coyote with a 357 revolver at 50-60 yards, but it isn't 2nd nature any more--I gotta pay attention to what I'm doing.

Per Ed Barris, Ruger S/A 357s run a 1-16" twist, Ruger D/A and S&W 357s run a 1/18-3/4 twist, and Colt runs a 1-14". My BisHawk 357 runs #358156, #358430, and a Lee GB 180 grain FNGC with fine accuracy from 700-1400 FPS+. I am not sure that it matters, from 1-14" to 1-20", with the short squatty bullets involved in revolver shooting. Some folks with lots more experience than I have--like Ed Harris, for example--seen to think that the slower twists are meant for 110-125 grain bullets. My experience has been that longer bullets shoot better in all 357s than do the 110s and 125s, since my belief is that the bullet bases are freed from chamber throat direction before their shorter drive body portions are fully engraved into the forcing cone, and bullets are subject to canting if unsupported. Dunno.

All this to say.......HB/HP bullets have their place, I just don't want to produce them. I can't make a target bullet as good as the Hornady, Speer, or Remington HBWCs, and I can't see a difference between how my BBSPs and a homogenous-alloy casting from the same cavity print downrange. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
 
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John

Active Member
#19
I had a HB version of the 358495 maybe 395?. It had an captive base first I had seen and cast well with dental lead. @ 64 my eyes will no longer let me see what I want to. I sold it 5-6 years ago as I could no longer shoot well enough to tell the difference between the hb and standard wc.