Help cleaning, main pouring alloys of ingots into good alloy, around 600# Lyman no 5?

[Canuck Bob]

The lead stash contains about 400#s of soft plumbing lead with the joints salvaged by someone else, 65 pounds clean linotype. another 125# of cleaned roof flashing in 1# Lyman ingot molds. Also 100# Lawrence Magnum shot, new. 15# of 90tin-10lead lFinally a 100 to 125# COWW. The dream is alloying a large balanced alloy and never cleaning such quantities again. Hoping for a balanced 94 3 3 alloy.

 

[Brad]

What are you shooting with said alloy? Do you need that much tin? Match the alloy to the application. For higher velocity rifle stuff that alloy is fine but I view it as a bit much for handgun use.
I prefer to keep my stuff separate and make up batches for specific uses. I have monotype, pure, and range scrap all in separate bins in ingots. I just mix as I need something.
I try to keep the tin use down as it is the most expensive metal.

 

[Canuck Bob]

Brad, this is for rifle range shooting and steel probably to 300 yards max. I do some wood's loafing on Crown Land so a capable camp load is in order. My cancer is a bone marrow disorder so heavy metals need careful handling. Future ability to alloy ingots can be pulled off the table at any time. Also there is no plan for high volume blasting and no handguns.

It would suit me fine to alloy up what lead I have into a very nice rifle bullet alloy and get rid of the ingot equipment. Then use GC, heat treating, and PC to alter bullet performance. The collected alloys were assembled with an eye to 90-5-5 Lyman #2 (Sorry about title, I often write Lyman #5 in error). The cost of tin was just added in and absorbed by a 15# 80-10 solder purchase.

 

[fiver]

first you need to figure out what each alloy has or close to what it has.
do not count the magnum shot as a high 6% antimony alloy, even their older stuff only contained about 4.75%.
and their chilled shot is about 1%.
their new magnum stuff I would bet is around 3%.
lets set the roofing lead to the side for now and concentrate on what else you have.

the plumbers stuff has tin but an unknown amount I would make a guess at it having maybe .75% total tin.
400
plus 100 lbs of 3% antimony and some arsenic.[shot]
100
lets call it 100 lbs of ww alloy, with a little tin and about 2.5% antimony.
100
65 lbs of lino at 11% antimony and about 3% tin [more or less it's used]

mix it all together and you get about 1.8% antimony, and around .75% tin.
cut the plumbers lead down to 300 lbs and your numbers go up to right about ww alloy with 1% tin.
that's 565 lbs of mixed useable alloy.

leaving you 225 lbs of roofers and plumbers lead to scrounge or buy an antimony alloy to mix.
or to mix with 10 lbs of your tin for a 20-1 mix of about the same BHN as your other mix only without the ability to heat treat.
and 5 extra lbs of tin to add to your other alloy to make it a balanced alloy.

 

[Canuck Bob]

Wow did I overestimate. The attachment is an alloy calculator and I forgot I set it up for 400lbs. total. Any more lead and the alloy drops lower. I used 4% Sn 12% Sb for the lino, 4% Sn for the magnum shot, and .25% Sn 2% Sb for WW. Looks like 96 2 2 is about right as you noted fiver after adjusting feeder alloys and adding lead.

 

[Canuck Bob]

I like using this alloy calculator. What do guys think of the following feeder alloys, all lead-tin-antimony in format.
Lino 86-3-11
WW 97.75-0.25-2
Lawrence Mag Shot new 97-0-3
Tin actually 10-90-0
Plumbing lead 99.5-0.5-0

 

[popper]

Lead alloys won't cause you a problem unless you eat it. Wash after handling does fine. It is not absorbed through the skin. IMHO, I'd cast a bunch with the Lino & WW. Squish together in vise to get an idea of harness (unlessyou have the BHN tester). Add lino till you get what you want, then mix up the batch. Depending on Cal and weight of bullets, you need to test some to get it correct. I use 4% Sb for 308W that I push pretty hard. If you mix everything to begin, you have no way of modifying - lino is the only hardner you have.

 

[fiver]

I think those are pretty realistic numbers.
the ww's might have .5-.7 more antimony, if they are older ones like from the 80's or even the 90's 3-3.5% is more accurate.

 

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks popper, I'll be sensible with lead handling. You questioned that my only hardner was lino. I'm planning to quench or oven heat treat when needed. Will this be an adequate hardening substitute?

I appreciate your plan above fiver. I'm considering mixing 400#s around 95-2.5-2.5 now.

Hold the WWs back for a Sb and arsenic source for another run sweetened with tin. It is 100# and assuming 2% Sb. Would a guy dilute it 25 or 50% with lead or process the 100#'s and add the lead as needed? Ian talks of WW plus 50% lead I think. Time to refresh my memory on the Tips ... forum. Where would a guy use 20-1 Pb Sn?

Edit: just read fivers note on WW alloy. I bought these WWs from the ex-wife of the original collector. She said they had them for years and the zinc numbers were very low. I'll call it 2.5% close enough!

 

[Rick]

I would suggest against making it all into very large batches. It may suit your needs today but over time those needs will change and you'll have all your eggs in one basket.

 

[Canuck Bob]

Fellows please understand that I realize your advice is spot on if I didn't have medical issues. I started lead collection and forum memberships a little less than 10 years ago. The cancer diagnosis happened shortly after that and chemo started immediately. Three times I was about to startup casting and treatment stopped me. I have a window of opportunity to finally get going but it could shut in weeks or months.

My original plan comes from a vision of sorts. After 2 days of trying to puke up my ankles I wander out to my shop and tend to casting chores. Then a day or two before chemo hobble off to the range and spend the day wasting ammo.

Please consider how you would handle this unique challenge. I'm all ears.

I also realize some folks find medical talk rude. I did most of my life. Please forgive me. It is my opinion handicapped shooters drift away rather than seek help.

 

[KeithB]

Hang in there Bob. Not had cancer but have had a few medical challenges so while I don't know what you are feeling or going through I know how I have felt and what I have gone through. I think you should do what you think is right. My only caution would be that processing lead can be very physically hard work so I would urge you to take things patiently.

 

[freebullet]

If ya want honest;
I'd mix all that chit together & start casting

 

[Brad]

I applaud your drive and desire to keep shooting. Not giving up is a huge part of surviving cancer, or anything for that matter.

Keith is right, melting big batches will be physically exhausting. Don't be afraid to do smaller batches to keep it manageable.

 

[Canuck Bob]

I've decided to take the first step and clean and ingot the WW lead, it is in the shop and dry, starting with 25# batches initially. Also there is a lead supplier locally who sells 5# ingots of #2. I'm going to pick some up and follow freebullet's honest advice to at least cast some bullets. Need the snow gone to put all the chit together and cast more bullets.

 

[fiver]

50 lbs of alloy mixing is probably pretty manageable in an afternoon. [and repeatable]
it's also plenty of alloy to cast a couple hundred this and that bullets to play with for quite some time.
you still have to size the cases, lube size them, and all that just to get to the range.

you get like 40 bullets a pound from a 170gr mold, and about 43 form a 160gr mold.
6-7 lbs of casting is a couple of days worth of shooting, and a couple of days of casting, sizing, case prep and loading.
you don't need to make 400 lbs of alloy all at once so if you want something harder a 50 or 100 lb batch gives you time to find more stuff to work the rest of your lead.