Help with 1911 springs

waco

Springfield, Oregon
So I've had my Kimber 1911 5" for 20 years. Never replaced any springs. Looking to replace the recoil spring. What poundage spring should I be looking to get? What would duplicate a factory spring? I shoot a 200gr SWC with like 5.0gr BE
Thanks guys.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Whatever will chamber a round reliably when you release the slide lock. Anything more is overkill because it only exists to return the slide to battery.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
16 should work I think the factory are like 19 or thereabouts.
I have seen some guy's go to 14 and even 12 which is much too low IMO.
 

Longone

Active Member
Like what has been previously mentioned, 16 lb. for a 5” 45. If you are going to get one you might want to get a mainspring as well, as long as it’s not a compact grip it should be a 23 lb. A firing pin spring will come with the recoil spring.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
And how difficult is it to replace the mainspring and firing pin springs? All I have ever done is field strip it to clean.
 

Longone

Active Member
Firing pin is removed by pushing in the firing pin and sliding the firing pin stop out. The firing pin is (obviously) under spring tension and can be blocked with your free hand. To install push the firing pin in and slide the firing pin stop over the firing pin until it pops out through the stop hole.
The mainspring is a little bit more involved but still straight forward. The biggest thing is keeping the sear spring from getting out of position.
Honestly, if you have had this handgun for 20 years and never stripped it down completely this is the time. It’s a good learning experience and you can be sure it needs it.
No special tools are needed, screwdriver, punch, and cleaning supplies. John Browning was a genius and it shows by how he designed this gun.
 

Mike W1

Active Member
Unless you've got three hands changing a main spring does require a bit of hand strength that I don't have and you might want to do it in a plastic bag. This crude little tool makes it a lot easier though.

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F

freebullet

Guest
Kimber might send you a shiny new one free? They had pretty good rep for that some time back.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
16 lb is factory stock. Many folks go higher, but that isn't necessary with normal full power
loads. My 1911s with stock springs run 200 SWCs over 4.0 or even 3.8 TG reliably. My normal
load is 4.8 TG and H&G 68, have shot hundreds of thousands of them, literally.
Ian got it right. The spring is just there to close it. Some folks want super strong and they
are not necessary.
Consider replacing the FP stop with one with a smaller radius. JMB originally spec'd a small radius
and the Army in about 1923 decided it was too hard to rack the slide.....without cocking the hammer
first....and had the radius increased. That changes the lockup time, and not in a good way, it unlocks
earlier than JMB intended, dumps more energy into the slide, harsher recoil, harder on the gun.
The tighter radius hits the hammer neck lower (as intended) and it takes more force to cock the hammer,
holding the slide shut a few milliseconds longer.

I put a match bushing in my Kimber last year, improved accy noticably. Somebody, maybe EGW, has
them sized to 0.001" OD and ID steps to fit your slide and bbl, if you can measure accurately, no fitting and
a proper, tight bushing to slide and bushing to bbl is attainable with minimal cost and effort.

Bill
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
If you want a few more tips on checking up the general health of that gun, PM me
and I can point out a few other fairly simple things to look for when cleaning and inspecting
a 1911 to keep it running properly.

Bill
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Walter, the small radius firing pin stop does make a difference. I put one on my Gold Cup and the recoil impulse changed. Not as snappy. Definitely harder to rack the slide with the hammer down.
 
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Longone

Active Member
Bill, can you share the “tips” for the 1911 with the rest of us? Always willing to learn.

Thanks, Longone
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
OK, didn't want to bore everyone, but if there is some interest.

One of the most common issues with a 1911 is inconsistent ejection, typically a symptom of an
improperly tensioned extractor. It turns out that this bit if knowledge seems to have largely fallen through
the cracks as production of the 1911 moved from only Colt for the better part of a century (less the WW2
contractors who came and went from the field quickly) is the need for and proper way to set up
the tension on the extractor. I have seen numerous 1911s and the mini-not-really-1911s like the
SIG 238 that come with ZERO extractor tension and very inconsistent ejection. My wife's 238 tossed the first
two cases into the tin roof over the firing line, upward about 70 deg from the ground. The next one was
about 10 degrees above horizontal, and the third case literally rolled off of her hand and lay on the
shooting bench, zero energy/velocity. Since it has a tunneled extractor just like a 1911, I set the tension
and it started ejecting vigorously and consistently, and that was years ago, and it is still fine.

Basically, the extractor is a leaf spring, and it needs to be moderately preloaded towards the centerline
of the slide so the forward 'doughnut', actually more of a pad, is touching the interior of the extractor
tunnel solidly. There are special tools which are said by the sellers to give you perfect extractor setup,
but my simple, no tools method works fine. Start with the slide off the gun.

Push in the firing pin, and move the fp stop downward, about 1/4" and stop, then get ready to catch
the FP, under spring pressure rearward, as you move the FP stop the rest of the way down and out.
Catch and remove the fp and it's spring. Note that the spring has a right and wrong direction. Right is
with the tight end pushed up onto the FP until it will stay there by itself. The other end is bigger and
will not stay there, will just fall off if you tilt it down. Now, here is the first real item of inspection to see
how your extractor is set up. It should take a small screwdriver to pry the extractor up until the
rear 1/2" (which is the mounting portion) pops clear.
If yours pries up super easily, or will just
shake out ( many do!) it has too little or even zero preload, not good for consistent extraction and
ejection. If yours take a bit of prying, clean the extractor and tunnel (a .22 LR brass brush fits nicely
to clean the tunnel) and then push the extractor back into place, until it is flush. It should take a
firm push with a thumb to get it flush, say 4 or 5 lbs force. If it is a lot less, you need to bend the
extractor. Fortunately, there is a handy, professional extractor bending tool laying right on your
bench....the slide. Insert the butt end of the extractor (rear) into the slide's extractor tunnel until
the full diam portion is fully in, but no more. Then using the slide as a lever, put the tip of the
extractor on a wooden surface that you don't mind marring slightly, and put a bit of bend into
the extractor, JUST A BIT. Do this gently and you will not do enough the first couple of times
as you learn what it takes to put a tiny permanent bend into the extractor. Once you think you have
bent it a touch, reverse it to normal orientation and reinstall flush - hoping to take a firm push
to seat it. If it still does not, do another slight tweak to the extractor......BENDING IT TOWARDS
the centerline of the slide, to increase preload towards a case rim. Once you get the tension
right, reassemble the extractor - get the slot exactly lined up be prying with a small screwdriver
before you even attempt to put in the FP stop. It is useful to slide the FP stop into place without
the FP or spring as a test to see that you have the extractor in the right location fore and aft and
rotationally. Once you can slide the FP stop in freely, then put in the FP with spring, compress it
with a punch or similar, and slide in the FP stop until the FP clicks in and locks it in place.

Also, if your gun has a trigger stop in the trigger (tiny allen screw on the bottom, accessed by a hole
in the lower trigger face, or the GC factory screw has holes and is rotated by a pin from the side) you
should see if it is set correctly. With the gun unloaded, or better, the slide off, for safety, hold the trigger
all the way rearward firmly while cocking the hammer and slowly letting it down with your other thumb.
You are trying to feel for the sear hitting the half cock notch as the hammer rotates forward from fully
cocked. If you feel nothing but smooth hammer movement this is good. If you want to set to minimum
overtravel, back off the stop screw a bit and check again. Do this until you feel the half cock swiping the
sear as the hammer goes forward. This is unsafe ( gun could stop at half cock, not fire) and will eventually
damage the sear top. Once you get to feeling this, back off the stop screw (move the screw fwd so the
trigger can more back more and push the sear farther away from the half cock notch) until the half cock misses the
sear and then give it another half turn for safety's sake. Too tight a trigger stop screw can make it impossible to
fire the gun, or catch it at half cock, neither is good if you depend on it to work.

While you have the extractor out, check to see if the bottom edge of the working portion, the 3/32" or so
behind the hook has a nice smooth bevel or better yet a radius on the bottom. The 1911 is SUPPOSED
to be a controlled round feed design, like the Mauser 93, 95 and 98 designs where the rim slides under
the extractor before the round leaves the control of the magazine. Some modern 'early release, parallel
lip' mags do not let the round rise up, and it pops free of the mag and the cartridge is in free flight for
a bit, not a good thing. With a dummy round, you should slowly cycle the gun and watch as the slide moves
forward and see if it pops out of the mag before it is under the control of the extractor. Most guns will still work
this way, but it is NOT the way JMB intended, and is asking for trouble. Original tapered lip mags ( the only new
source I know of now is Checkmate, their GI mags, all the rest of, even theirs are early release) let the round rise
up behind the extractor before it is released from the mag. Recent Colt mags are a hybrid design with tapered
lips but an early release, too. Seems a pretty good compromise. Again, MOST 1911s will function well with
either original tapered lip JMB design mags, or hybrid mags or parallel lip, early release mags (the last make up
at lease 80-90% of current new production mags, or higher) but not all will. I have a Commander which feeds, slowly
by hand slick as owl snot from original or hybrid mags, but has a definite, always there hitch when feeding my
preferred Gold Dot 230 JHPs in slow hand checking. Best check this with the FP removed, too. It is worth doing
the test to see how your rounds feel on the trip from the mag to the barrel, and watch to see if they go up
under the extractor before being release by the mag.

Also, a very rough surface finish on the breech face is detrimental to good, smooth feeding. A light polish
of that area with, say 400 grit sandpaper on a small tongue depressor will help smooth up feeding if yours
has a rough finish.

Hope this is useful.

Bill
 
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