HKS 25-M Speedloader and S&W 1937 Brazilian Contract [Not working!]

Elric

Well-Known Member
Well, trying the .45 Colt 25-5 HKS Speedloader in a '37 Brazilian resulted in the ejector hitting the locking shaft on the underside of the speedloader. So, I tried the .45 Auto Rim version, the 25-M. Same results. :( The star and the shaft keep the underside of the 25-M far enough away that only about 1/16 inch of the bullet nose on these 200 grainers enters the chambers. Turn the knob and gravity is the only guiding force.

Looks like my desire to go retro is "uh-oh"! In this application, it is starting to look as if full moon clips and 45 ACP brass is the [only] way to go.

UPDATE: Tried a full cylinder of fired R-P cases, one failed to be caught by the ejector star. Same thing with the unfired R-P cases.
UPDATE: Mic'd some R-P rims, average around .513, but there will be some variance as you rotate the case.
UPDATE: Not 45 Colt, case goes in only so far and stops on a shoulder.

Rule of thumb- if the cylinder is not counterbored so the rims are flush with the cylinder, an HKS will -NOT- work.
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
The HKS loaders meant for 45 Auto Rim worked fine in my Model 25-2 in the early 80s and do fine with my year-old 625. SWC bullets don't "flow" as easily as truncated cone of RN designs, but they do work.

I despised moon clips 35+ years ago, they were a consummate PITA. Now with the installers and demooners, the clips aren't the speed-bump they once were. And I would like to give a SHOUT-OUT to the makers of the RIMZ plastic full-moon clips, they are a lot easier to load and unload than their metal counterparts. They say to NOT use the plastic clips for serious purposes like defensive venues, but for doinkin' around and hunting they are just fine.
 

StrawHat

Well-Known Member
Water pump pliers (big ones) can squeeze two at a time into the full moons.

Never used any other speedloader.

Kevin
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
I have a bag full of various speed loaders, but have never used one. I just don't like the darn things. They may have made sense when police still carried revolvers, but a ,mag change on an autoloader is so much easier. For social purposes, a 1911 45 auto of some stripe is always close at hand.
 

Elric

Well-Known Member
Mec-Gar makes darned nice blued steel magazines. Check out the range of rounds per mag. They have 17 rounders that don't extend past what the normal mag does.
 

Walks

Well-Known Member
Never had a problem with any HKS speedloader in any caliber or any revolver.
Round Nose bullets work best, Wadcutters are the worst choice to try in any speedloader.
Just gotta learn that "jiggle".
My Dad made demooners back in the 1950's. Don't know if he got the idea himself or from someone else. Just a piece of aluminum tubing a bit larger the a .45ACP case. Notch one end about 2/3 of the way around and a 1/4" deep. Slide up the case and twist, pop them right out. Bought a nice one at a gunshow about the time the Brazilian Contract surplus revolvers hit the market in the early 1980's. Blued steel with half the tube knurled. Even works on the 1/3 moon clips that Ranch Products used to make.
I collected REM .45AR brass for years, have enough to last the rest of my life. So I don't worry about moon clips anymore.
Never had a AR case slip under an extractor star in either an old Colt or S&W M1917 or M1937.
They also work just fine in M25 & M625.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
My de-mooner is the notched metal tube that in some past life was a golf club handle. Slick critter! The installer is one of the tres decedant tools sold by Dillon for the purpose.

Rolling this idea around a bit today......how the 1937 Brazilian contract S&Ws don't mesh with the Auto Rim cases.....maybe some examples just need the clipped ammo. I recall almost 40 years ago that I bought "Model 1917 Half Moon Clips" from Numrich Arms for very little money, and that under no circumstances would those things fit in a S&W 25-2. I guess they might fit a Colt New Service M-1917, but way too wide for any N-frame.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
The 1/2 moons have the solid part around the outside vs the full moon on the inside .
The Governor takes the full moons .
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Yessir--and the Ranch Products' 1/3-moon clips had the solid part in the center. ETA--the 1/3-moon clips I speak of don't seem to be available any longer, I bought them in 1981. I think they are still around here in a box someplace, but I haven't laid eyes on them for quite some time.
 
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david s

Well-Known Member
Photo from else where, the two on the right are 38 Special but from the left, plastic Rimz full moon clip, steel full moon, steel 1/2 moon clip and Ranch Products 1/3 moon clip and 5th from left the HKS Speed Loader with 45 Auto rim cartridges. The plastic Rimz full moon clips are very easy to load and unload but I don't think they hold a case firmly enough for carry.
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Walks

Well-Known Member
I have at least 4 boxes of ACP ammo with the 1/3 moon clips. That was the big selling point for them. You could store "clipped" ACP ammo in the correct boxes. And gee whiz, load 2 rds at a time.
 

Dale53

Active Member
I have been a fan of S&W "N" frame .45 ACP's for many, many years. My personal experience goes back to 1950 when the S&W Model 1950 target model hit the market. My father bought one and when the S&W 1955 target model (heavy barrel) hit the market he bought the 1955 and sold the 1950. We used both .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim in the revolver. At that time we used the military half moon clips with ACP.

I currently am shooting a 625-8 JM Special with nothing but my home cast bullets. My target load is the Mihec version of the H&G #69 (flat based #68) in both .45 ACP cases and .45 Auto Rims. When shooting deliberately, the semi wadcutters work ok but you have to "wiggle" them a bit when reloading. For speed loads, you best use TC or RN bullets. For range shooting, Auto Rims work quite well for most uses.

I also use the carbon fiber/polycarbonate RIMZ clips at the range. They allow easy loading and unloading with hands only. No tools needed. However, for serious use, I choose Ranch Products steel full moon clips. I demoon with Brownell's screwdriver type demooner (similar to the home made golf club type mentioned above). I use the Original Moon Clip tool for loading similar to the one sold by Dillon (this tool will do both but I prefer the Brownell screw driver type for unloading the clip).

Something not often mentioned, when using moon clips the empties are easily kept together and I bring all of my empties home in the clips. I found a nice fishing lure case (I have several of them) and the compartments are perfect for a loaded or fired moonclip. When you get home, everything is organized to sit down, using your tools to unload and reload the clips. Then, the next range trip you are ready to go. I use the same set up for the RIMZ clips except I need no tools.

The last time I looked, Brownell's had the RIMZ clips at a considerably cheaper price than the original supplier (just a heads up).

FWIW
Dale53
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I can put 50 loaded full moons in a 30 cal can , 300 rounds , 6 boxes . Lotta wasted space for sure but I don't think. I'll shoot much more than that in one range trip maybe not in a weekend fun shoot .

Full moons are what Jerry Mikilick (sp) shoots 12 rounds on target in something under 3 seconds , so , I'm going with they make for a pretty fast reload in a model 25-? JM .

The system pretty useful when it originated 102-5 yr ago and I feel like the bugs are pretty much worked out .

Every S&W and Colts 45 ACP revolver share 1 clip design from 1917 to last Tuesday . Ruger is the odd man out , if Taurus/Rossi/Uberti built one it would probably use them too .

When you buy in bulk you can get 105 clips for $85 in your mailbox . On a good day with discount points you can get 4 maybe mags .

You can keep 70-80 empty clips in a pill bottle about the size of a roll of quarters .
5-6 loaded will go in a tall boy pill bottle for those days when you just want to annoy someone with the whole concept of a 30 round clip magazine or you need to have water tight storage for a box of ammo .

I find that "rolling" the rounds into the clips makes them much easier to load and a little silicone spray lube left to dry doesn't hurt anything . Nickel cases load easier than brass . Once the clips have been loaded a couple of times they are actually pretty easy to load . The last round is harder than the first 5 , a product of flex and leverage I think .

The $2 golf club tool is the cats pajamas for unloading the clips , the first one takes about an hour . A putter gets you a 6 round tool while a driver will get you a 12 round tool . The by the time you've made 4 it's down about 20 min depending on gingerbread and grip alterations .
They are mostly chromed steel so rust doesn't happen with any care at all .
 

david s

Well-Known Member
Empty clip storage is in pill bottles for full moon clips and a zip lock for the 1/2 and 1/3 clips. Unloading the clips is done with a homemade screw driver type in 38 Special and a DEMOONER tool I bought from Dillon a while ago. The clips get reloaded on the blue TK tool on the left. It's set up for 38 and the 45 clip mandrel is on the tools handle. The three tools all work pretty well and save a ton of wear and tear of the fingers. I like the little 1/3 moon clips when woods walking. I wander around and take shots at what ever rock or dandelion that catches my eye and the little third moon clips fit this use pretty well. Other wise it's the full mooners.
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
That blue "TK Custom" installer is what I use with the steel clips, and the half-notched gold club handle serves as my de-mooner. The Rimz plastic clips are hand-usable.