How Do You Shoot / What Do You Need From …. a Handgun.

[Bass Ackward]

I used to treat a handgun like a rifle and clean too often. I met a guy that shot competition that really blew my mind. I thought I was bassackward. He had a scoped, RSR, in 44 Mag he used for Sillouette in Ohio. He came to our range with a clean gun and shot it. NEVER hit a 9" pie plate at 50 yards once. Me thinking I would help him, pulled out my white light & said, you're leading. He said, yea, wanna shoot it? I'm thinking all kinds of stuff but, I did with similar results. I had just rebuilt the backboard so it was virgin before he started & there was NO SIGN of grouping. So I asked him what he was loading & he was very open about it. He told me he was shooting a GC, 280 gr, LBT LFN outta linotype, sized .438. (no typo) I asked how big was his bore? He smiled & said .429. Said his throats were 4.34. I asked him why so big & he said cause it goes into the chambers. His line, "If it gozes inta the back, it comes out the front."

Well, all kinds of things are running through my mind, & he said, while I was thinking, shoot it. Cheapest shooting I was gonna do, so I did & wahoo I hit the pie plate twice. I gave it up as a lost cause, returned the gun to him, I smiled, gave him my vision of what he should do, & he listened politely, took the gun with a smile on his face & said thank you. He kept shooting & somewhere he started cutting holes on that pie plate. He moved on out to 200 yards & when he ran out of ammo, he produced a 4" group. I was dumbfounded. Flew in the face of cast bullet "rules". I checked the gun again & leading was cut WAY back. He laughed & said he wouldn't clean again until his season was over now & thanked me for my help.

Still blows my mind. But it taught me a lesson. You develop your loads how you're gonna use your gun(s). I cleaned my FA 357 cause it snowed, I was bored, & it hadn't been cleaned for at least 2500 rounds. (2 years) What a waste of time, cause there was ZERO leading. I cleaned cause, well, your supposed to, ain't ya? That gun will shoot a dogturd accurately if you can load it. But now I am stuck trying to get it back to shooting to the sights. Rick tells me at least 50 rounds. I now have 4, clean guns that shoot like crap. Gonna waste several rounds to get back where I was.

 

[Brad]

I rarely clean handgun barrels. If it is shooting well I leave it alone. Rifles too for that matter.
The chambers on revolvers get cleaned but not the bore.

 

[Bass Ackward]

For the record: I had that fella open up a lubrisizer die to .435 for me. The largest mold I have throws .435. I have tried this in my Redhawk low to high & my grouse gun throws tighter patterns. I never measured his stuff, but sure ain't workin for me. The only other guy I ever heard claim success shootin big is Bill, MtnGun, or Pistolero here. I can't do it.

 

[Rick]

I've never tried that. Truth is I never even thought of that & doubt I would try it if I did.

Clean the bore of a fine shooting revolver? As the father of Brad's bride says, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[358156 hp]

Interesting. Veral Smith sort of hammered it into my head to use a good lube (LBT Blue), and don't clean the bore at all. If the gun leads, keep shooting it until it cleans up, an occasional dry patch is a good idea, but no solvent, and no brushes. For the short term shooting I was doing at the time it didn't work out for me. For extended shooting it did. Fast forward to last month, I was shooting a 686 indoors with wadcutters in a clean barrel. I was hitting the target okay, but not great. I kept shooting. At one point I checked the barrel leading and it was pretty leaded. I kept shooting, and the next time I looked at the barrel I saw little curlicues of lead in the bore & throats. The lead was actually stripping off, as Veral said it would. It was the damnedest thing ever. A dry patch removed most of the rest at home. I actually haven't been shooting the guns enough to fully season the bore.

 

[Bass Ackward]

Clean the bore of a fine shooting revolver? As the father of Brad's bride says, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

As a kid, cleaning was hammered into me. 20 yrs in the Army, you cleaned before anything. Hard habit to break if I don't know when I’m going to get back to THAT gun. What’s the old saying? Better safe than sorry. This discussion took me back in time.

When I was a kid, I worked a handgun range of Wade Van Kirk here that entertained silhouette & bullseye matches. We were less than 100 miles from Camp Perry & alot of the big names would practice there before the competition. I recovered their lead (bullets would ring) to use in my 358156 mold & load for my beat up, holster worn, Mod 15 Smith. 6 grains of Unique & banana lube would eat a hole @ 50 yds before I knew different.

I never was allowed around the competiton, unless Wade would call me to the line to shoot afterwards. Found out at a later age, they were betting money on my shooting. I loved to walk the stream by the range & snap shoot snakes, frogs, & such. One day, a nice old fella about my height came down (didn’t know or care who he was in those days) & he was watching me, off & on he offered advice on drawing more quickly, & we walked, talked & shot for a few hundred yards. We got along as if he was my grandfather. So I would let him shoot every so often. He wasn’t wearin a gun & was too big for my holster rig, so he just shot. It was a good day, but I didn’t miss much with that outfit at creek ranges back then. We walked back & Wade felt it was time to try & make some money. Wade invited the old guy to shoot against me which he smiled, shook his head & declined. He stood behind me the whole time.

I finished shooting & my father had come to pick me up. Wade introduced him around & he had a lengthy conversation with the old guy. Dad came back to the truck beaming & giddy when we left. He asked me if I knew who he was & he told me. But the name didn’t me anything to me then. (I was probably 14-15) Dad was happy as all get out cause that was why & how he got his copy of “Six Guns” which I later inherited.

 

[Pistolero]

I normally shoot bullets sized to throat diam, but some will not chamber that big, like my
Colt 1917, with .456 throats. It will not chamber larger than .454 to .455, and most molds I have
won't throw that big, either. So, I shoot it and my S&W 1917 with .454 or .455 from limited molds.
They are not super accurate with anything, including jacketed, but do well, about 2-2.5" at 25 when I
am doing a good job. The S&W needs hot loads to shoot to the sights. Light loads shoot about
6" left at 25 yds, and as you crank up the Unique, they move right over. At max loads that I am
willing to load, 6.5 Unique, it is still about 2" left, but that is good enough. Tested 7gr once (Elmer
says 7.5, IIRC) and it shot pretty much to POA. But that is beyond what I am willing to push a
235 bullet with in a 1937 S&W (not a real US Army 1917, a Brazilian version, identical except the
age and the crest on the side.)

My SBH has .433 throats, so I load .433 in it, custom GB mold. I have run into a couple of guns
that shoot just a bit better with .001 over throat diam, my Anaconda is one, but it is not a super
accurate gun with anything that I have yet tried. A lot of loads in that Big Snake are 4-5" at 25,
pretty disappointing for a beautiful gun. I have never checked for thread choke on that one.

And I get great results at .359 in several .38 Spl S&Ws, but not really better than .358, so don't do it
normally. I have standardized at .358 for my .38 Spl bullets, a bit oversized with some, but on with
others, shoots fine as a "in stock, for any gun" load.

And, 4" at 200 is beyond what I have ever done with any handgun. I have shot a number of 4" groups
at 100 with different guns, but never beat that. When I say " a number" I mean something like
a dozen times. Enough to know that I used to be able to do it with iron sights, but it was not something
that I did often. And I wonder if I could do it today....eyes are not like they were.

OK, I need to revise that....I have a Lone Eagle in 7-08 with a scope that I have shot numerous 1.5-2" groups
at 100 yds off of the bench. Pocket rifle, really.

Bill

 

[CZ93X62]

Carry guns meant for Social Interactions Of The Armed Kind get practiced with frequently and cleaned immediately afterward--for a couple reasons.
1) Clean guns lubricated appropriately run better.
2) Clean guns verify that you gun is unfired in the event a question arises about having fired it on duty. Saw that movie--enough said.

Sport guns have their actions and chambers kept up, but I have cast-bullet rifle barrels that have not been cleaned for 10+ years. Same deal with my 22 LR arms.......actions and chambers YES, bores H--L NO. To date, the dirty barrel question has never come up in my dealings with game wardens, which have not been frequent. I don't try scandalous stuff while hunting or fishing, so I am probably pretty boring to the fish & fauna gendarmerie.

 

[fiver]

clean?
they are lucky if I remember to put them back where I got them from.
as far as sizing?
I have 1 44 cal. size die, 1 45 cal. size die, 1 38 cal. size die etc. [oddly I have a 401 and a 402 size die and no 40 cal. guns]
that size works or I get rid of the gun or make jacketed bullets for it.
I don't even have a size die for my 25-20, they get tumble lubed and loaded [probably sized some in the seat/crimp die? don't know, don't care,, they work]
I'm not gonna go count but I think I have maybe 8 or 9 size dies for everything, everything being around 80 different guns.
maybe I have just been lucky, but I haven't had too many issues with size being a problem.
I have one stainless revolver that does have a couple of undersize throats, I just swapped in the cylinder from the blued one and shoot cast in it.
it's more accurate than the blued one set up like that, I just shoot home made jacketed bullets in the stainless cylinder in the blued gun and everyone is happy.

 

[Cherokee]

In my youth, I cleaned guns after every use. About 20 years ago I discovered that cleaning was not necessary to get good results at the range, so I cut back frequency. Then I resumed match shooting and observed the guns still did not need cleaning frequently. Now I clean the action and chambers of revolvers when the cylinders look bad (blackened stainless) or crudy, but not the barrels unless really bad. For autos, clean the whole gun every 1K or so rounds. Rifles for cast get action cleaning only when needed, never the barrels. Rifles for jacketed, when the actions need it, I clean the whole gun. Never had a problem with rust so don't worry about that.
PS For cast bullets, when I learned about proper size to fit the barrel, the need for cleaning diminished significantly.

 

[Bret4207]

I'm not much on cleaning for the most part. I do like to clean a barrel that's had a zillion jacketed rounds through it, rifles I mean. Anything else, if it shoots I leave it alone.

FWIW, my duty 681 got cleaned after the range and the armorer came around once a year and cleaned the guts. But that particular gun would put the first shot, jacketed or lead to the sights and most everything after follwed the same general path. I imagine some guns are more finicky than others.

 

[RBHarter]

I can't say for sure that I've had a rifle or pistol that made a notable difference from 2 nd 10 to long term shooting . One particular summer a friend brought me his pride and joy over . What a shock to actually see the copper green fuzz growing in the barrel . Of course being in the dry country it wasn't a big deal to run a brush down the bore and a few wet patches and find the barrel unharmed . We cleaned a lot of good out of the barrel and after 10 or so rounds it was back to it's old self . Since then I've been more watchful of what's going on with barrels . Clean vs fouled and how many it takes to get to some point . Shooting petroleum wet lube I don't sweat bore rust , I mean the steel is impregnated with Vaseline and STP it's not likely to ever get wet . Any more if a rifle gets ragged it just gets Kroiled or Hoppesed and a wrapped brush 3-5 passes and dry patched . If it feels like it needs more I do but that's usually a rare case .
Pistols are another matter the barrels get the same attention but the slides get lots of frequent wash outs at a minimum . This is based on a long run with a Feg HP9 that wouldn't battery over 50% . Turns out there's a debris catcher groove that was packed hard full of lead . Being always behind the chamber behind the ejection port my best guess is that it catches near gas particulate lead or chamber scrapings . With that cured the slides get most of the attention probably every 200-250 rounds .
Revolvers get as needed attention and an annual overnight spa trip in the CLP bath and a drip dry , wipe down , chamber brush and patch dry . I don't fuss much with the barrels as they usually give up everything in the bath . 50 rounds shows little improvement in the gun but a lot in me typically if I've been shooting something different a lot . A warm 45 Colts RBH doesn't have a lot in common with an HP clone or an XD and that Sec 6 always takes time to get back in to .

I don't even like to think about the switches especially to paper patched from everything else ..........

 

[Rally]

My pistols get cleaned a lot because they get wet a lot. They either go swimming with me or are full of snow. I Sno-Seal my leather holsters for the same reason.
I enjoy cleaning my shotguns. I usually bring cleaning supplies with when pheasant hunting, just so I can admire them while sitting in a motel room. On a good day, I may remove some cattail fluff, pheasant feathers, or dog hair from the action or exterior. A wet Lab doesn't much care who's around when they shake off!
When I put my rifles away, I usually wipe them down, but seldom clean the bores unless they get wet.

 

[JSH]

Huh, I am odd man out.
Then again I don't know what some mean by cleaning.
All of mine get at least a patch down the barrel after every session. All get wiped down out side, even stainless.

I have gotten the small caliber bug,m17's and 20's. Been slacking on my CB stuff for sure. Have shot more jacketed in the last two years than the previous 20.
I start with a clean bore on them. Wipe Out is my choice of solvents.
Yes some like to be fouled a bit before groups close up. I would rather have it grouping at 2"@100 for a few rather than go the other way and start throwing flyers half way through a session.
That is why I clean my IHMSA guns. My FA 357 takes 5-10 shots to foul and tighten up.
My 30-20 has seen zero jacketed in 20 years, I myself believe in the "seasoning" thoughts. Have two of them,they see a nylon brush, a dry patch and then a patch of Kroil. Same for my 30-30 and 7BR.

All of my wheel guns get put up clean and oiled.