HOW HOT CAN YOU LOAD LEAD .357 FOR A LEVER ACTION RIFLE.

[Walks]

I preferred the Herrett for My STS Security-Six 6" bbl.
For My BL Speed-Six 2 3/4" I liked the Pachmayr Full Compact.
I put them on the STS Service-Six 3" I bought to replace the Speed-Six that my sister stole from me.
If I had known better I wouldn't have "round-butted" that Service-Six. It brings a Premium Price to Collectors. The 3" bbl was only offered the last year of Production; 1988.

I got the Speed-Six back from her estate last year. Only a tiny bit of rust on the outside of one chamber.

I had an old pair of Mershon Grips on a M19 4" I bought from a retired LAPD Street Cop. Wish I'd kept them. They were the Precurser to Pachmayr Recoil Pads & Grips. Their Shop was next door to Pachmayr; 1220 So. Grand Ave near downtown.

 

[HM8485]

A plea for advice and a word of caution. Anyone loading .348 Winchester with Cast Bullets? My dad bought it from the Coal Mining Company Store in 1936. When he turned 60 he gave it to me. I still have some factory loads I bought in 1976 after I shot up the 2 boxes he bought in the early 1950's he included with it. Ouch! I want to download a bit and keep it to less than 100 yards with cast. How does one cast a soft point with a hard body? It is a rugged gun. I found a load for AA2520 which I like in my 30.06 03A3 and M1. But the Lyman manual doesn't seem to have any loads for any powder company they aren't cozy with (I bought an RCBS 200 gr. I also have a big jug of Blue Dot while it was being closed out. A note to those who read about Seaforth's data for reduced velocity loads in rifle cartridges. Apparently he claimed that BD was not position sensitive in rifle loads. However, I got signs of excess pressure in the 30.06 and 7.62X39 using 10 grains BD which is well below his "starting load for the 30.06 and just above that for the Ruski round using his formula. The load was not compressed, even in the tiny round with either a Lee 150 gr or 120 gr GC cast from range scrap crimped with the Lee Factory crimp dies. Beyond the flattened primers, there was a swelling in the case neck all but about 1/8" of the 7.63X39 suggesting that the powder started to burn and extract the case before it left the SKS chamber! Scared me that I had loaded several rounds and did not check the first shot even though the chamber was stuck partially open on a couple of rounds requiring a blow from a piece of 2X4 to open it. Hard extraction in the O3 A3 also. Blue Dot does run well in my revolvers (.44 mag and .357) but stipped the cast bullets and leaded my barrel in my P89 and .357. Use caution!

 

[Rick H]

I am scanning the Lyman Cast bullet reloading page for the 348 W. with cast bullets....it is an old manual.

 

[Rick H]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition:

 

[fiver]

Lyman made a mold for the 351 wsl that works nice In the 348.

anyway to do a 2 part bullet you make the soft nose first, either by pouring a partial nose or inserting a lead ball in the mold then melting it.
let the soft nose set up for a second.
pour your base.
heat everything up so the alloy/s/ melts again, then cool it off.

this gives you a homogenous bullet with 2 alloys.
I dunno if it's all that necessary, but that's how you do it.

 

[Walks]

Lyman made a set of 2-part molds in the late 1970's - early 1980's to do that very thing.
Caliber .358 & .429
A nose mold for pure lead and a base mold with driving bands cast from #2. Cast each piece separately and put together with epoxy.
Never gave worthwhile accuracy. Too hard to get the nose piece set straight on in the "tail" piece.

 

[Ian]

yeah....stick with shotshell and a few handgun rounds with BD.

 

[Walks]

There are a couple of loads with a 190gr cast in the Lyman #1 using IMR3031 & SR4759.

 

[Winelover]

I found a load for AA2520 which I like in my 30.06 03A3 and M1. But the Lyman manual doesn't seem to have any loads for any powder company they aren't cozy with (I bought an RCBS 200 gr.

I like AA2520 for jacketed bullets in my 308 Winchesters. But it is not a cast friendly powder. That's why there is no data for cast bullets. AA2520 is a ball/spherical powder that doesn't behave well in reduced loadings. At less than 85% density, you run the risk of SEE. This info was related to me by Mr. Harris on CB.

I have the Accurate Smokeless Powder Loading Guide (Number one). They only list data for three powders for 348W........2700, 4350 and 3100 with four different bullets. Three of those four are jacketed. The only data for lead is a 250 grain FN and the data for 2700 is absent, with that bullet. The lightest bullet they give data for is a Hornady 200 FN. Their 2700 powder turned in a good load rating from them.

 

[L Ross]

My two cents worth HM8485. I would carefully anneal all of your brass first of all. You cannot afford to lose any. I load for and shoot a Model 86 Winchester in .33 Winchester with both cast and jacketed. 4895 is your friend for powder. I like SR4759 for plinking loads with an Accurate mould and those plinking loads would kill all of the deer I'd ever want. But you can't get 4759 any longer. So 39 grains of 4895 would work handily for jacketed or cast in your .348 because it works fine in my my old .33.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

A plea for advice and a word of caution. Anyone loading .348 Winchester with Cast Bullets? My dad bought it from the Coal Mining Company Store in 1936. When he turned 60 he gave it to me. I still have some factory loads I bought in 1976 after I shot up the 2 boxes he bought in the early 1950's he included with it. Ouch! I want to download a bit and keep it to less than 100 yards with cast. How does one cast a soft point with a hard body? It is a rugged gun. I found a load for AA2520 which I like in my 30.06 03A3 and M1. But the Lyman manual doesn't seem to have any loads for any powder company they aren't cozy with (I bought an RCBS 200 gr. I also have a big jug of Blue Dot while it was being closed out. A note to those who read about Seaforth's data for reduced velocity loads in rifle cartridges. Apparently he claimed that BD was not position sensitive in rifle loads. However, I got signs of excess pressure in the 30.06 and 7.62X39 using 10 grains BD which is well below his "starting load for the 30.06 and just above that for the Ruski round using his formula. The load was not compressed, even in the tiny round with either a Lee 150 gr or 120 gr GC cast from range scrap crimped with the Lee Factory crimp dies. Beyond the flattened primers, there was a swelling in the case neck all but about 1/8" of the 7.63X39 suggesting that the powder started to burn and extract the case before it left the SKS chamber! Scared me that I had loaded several rounds and did not check the first shot even though the chamber was stuck partially open on a couple of rounds requiring a blow from a piece of 2X4 to open it. Hard extraction in the O3 A3 also. Blue Dot does run well in my revolvers (.44 mag and .357) but stipped the cast bullets and leaded my barrel in my P89 and .357. Use caution!

I like BD powder myself. But After my recent findings trying it in the 350 Legend Its gonna remain my HANDGUN/SHOTSHELL only powder. I have a few loads and they work very well zero issues.
CW

 

[Walks]

A note of caution, Use only H4895 for reduced loads. IMR4895 is DIFFERENT.

About 25yrs ago I tried to use the IMR version in a reduced load. Bad recoil, extraction was hard, case neck split down to the body of the case.
I sent the Rifle back to Weatherby, they replaced the bolt. It takes a LOT to mess up a Mark 5 action.

BD is a shotgun/pistol powder ONLY.

 

[fiver]

on the other hand I hate H type and only shoot I type reduced loads.

since 25 years ago H and I have flipped spots on the burn speeds.

 

[CZ93X62]

Lyman made a mold for the 351 wsl that works nice In the 348.

anyway to do a 2 part bullet you make the soft nose first, either by pouring a partial nose or inserting a lead ball in the mold then melting it.
let the soft nose set up for a second.
pour your base.
heat everything up so the alloy/s/ melts again, then cool it off.

this gives you a homogenous bullet with 2 alloys.
I dunno if it's all that necessary, but that's how you do it.

This is the Bruce B Soft Point casting method in a nutshell. I use a "donor bullet" of pure lead for the soft nose portion, usually about 1/3 the total weight of the complete casting. E.g., I use a lead #22-55-SP for the #311041--#257312 for #375449--#311316 for the Lee 457-405. Melt one of those in each cavity, then remove from heat and let things set. Then pour the base portion with a good sprue puddle, and set the mould block in the heat until the sprue puddle starts to melt. Carefully remove from heat, keeping the mould & handle level, and set down to cool. Heat source is the hard metal melt, which will "float" both aluminum and steel moulds easily. The nose metal is slightly heavier than the base metal, so it will stay settled in the nose portion of the mould that remains lower than the base portion. They fuse, but don't mix IME. All the above is courtesy of the late Bruce Bannister of NCBS renown.

I have shot the BBSPs vs. the homogenous-metal bullets of same design, and there is no discernable difference between targeting outcomes at 100 and 200 yards. The process of making them is slow as a glacier, but you only need 20-30 for several years of larger-game hunting; practice and sight-in can be done with the homogenous-alloy counterparts.

 

[358156 hp]

Locking mould handles are a nice thing to have if using Bruces method. Not essential, but nice.

 

[fiver]

especially if I'm doing it.
a nice heavy rubber band is helpful.

 

[Ian]

The only time I tried it I used one of those blue rubber bands from broccoli to hold the handles tight. Makes a great hunting bullet but I got bored after about ten of them. If you hunt with .30-caliber below 1800 fps it's the way to go.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Seems many agree the magic happens @ 1800 & 2200...

I find same. Only rifle bullet/load I have thats preefprmed at less was the 457122 Gould Hp. 1450/1500 was what I have read was optimal. Im guessing the larger diameter off setting the 1800 threshold a bit.

cw

 

[fiver]

the threshold is meplat and alloy based.
decrease the meplat and you need to raise the speed to deform it.
increase the speed on a larger meplat and you start making varmint rounds.
changing the alloy just moves the decimal points of time for penetration versus expansion.
it's that whole when is the bullet when it happens thing again.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

the threshold is meplat and alloy based.
decrease the meplat and you need to raise the speed to deform it.
increase the speed on a larger meplat and you start making varmint rounds.
changing the alloy just moves the decimal points of time for penetration versus expansion.
it's that whole when is the bullet when it happens thing again.

Agreed 100% (Not that I usually ever find doubt in your postings)
But as I just stated in other thread. Just how much/ fast these changes occur. (To what degree)

As I see it its a recipe. Some are better then others and if ya want the "good one" ya need to know proper ingredients and there amounts.

CW