How to make better reloads

[Kevin Stenberg]

I have read statements to the affect. That the most accurate reloads produce the smallest ES of velocity. An I got to thinking what can help me produce the smallest ES in my reloads.
With my limited experience reloading. My thought would be that powder type would have the greatest affect of any components (powder bullet primer) that are used in reloading.
But I am also interested in the process of putting the components together. And how that action either makes the ammunition better or worse.

 

[Ian]

the most accurate reloads produce the smallest ES of velocity.

Well, for starters that's not always, or even often, true.

 

[fiver]

no,,,yes.
the best you can do is to run the highest pressure possible, with the lowest brisance primer that throws the most consistent flame front, in the most consistently made cases.

 

[waco]

In my experience, low ES and SD really start to show up at longer ranges as far as accuracy is concerned. Neck tension plays a big part too.
That being said, I have had loads with quite large ES numbers that grouped very well at 100 yards.

 

[waco]

In short, it only matters if it does, to quote someone who I can't remember...lol

 

[RicinYakima]

I agree with the rest of the above. Shooting over a chronograph is mostly a waste of time for accuracy or precision.

 

[Matt]

A chronograph has its place. It can tell you that your pressures are relatively safe or not as there is no magic technique, powder, case shape that gets you markedly higher velocity. If you have higher than reasonable velocities your pressures are correspondingly high. A good warning sign.
The other function is to allow you to calculate exterior ballistic data. Your true velocity average is very important and only obtainable via a chronograph.

As far as better reloads: make or buy better bullets. It’s amazing how consistently accurate Sierra 168gr Matchkings have been in many 30 caliber rifles in the last 40 years. I’ve experienced several other jacketed bullets that are consistently accurate over decades. The only cast bullet this may be true of in my experience is the Saeco 315. The jury is still deliberating on this for me.

Prep your cases properly, seat those good bullets straight. Find a powder in the right
range that will nearly fill the case. Then hope you have a good barrel and chamber that are concentric. Some proper bedding. And the big one is trigger time. Practice is more important than anything else. Learn how to shoot, Good shooting trumps a lot of other stuff. And shooting is the only way to know.

 

[Walks]

It used to be that folks who reloaded for accuracy maintained all the same lot number for everything. Including brass. But these days with range pickup brass and everything loaded on a progressive. I think those 2 things hurt the quest for accuracy more then anything else.

 

[Tom]

I dont remember the numbers, but my best load in a hart bbl 788 223ai was with berger 52gr fbhp. 7 1/2 primer and 322 powder. It would make 1/2" groups at 200 yards fairly easily. When I shot over a chrono, the spreads were horrible.
I've never measured group sizes beyond 200, but it was a reliable gopher getter to 400 yards. I decided to go with results and forget about es and sd.

 

[Michael]

Personally when it comes to rifles, I like shooting over a chronograph, just cuz, I like to see what is happening and find it interesting, sometimes for no other reason. There are times when a chronograph is very useful in when developing a load when no data is published for the cartridge, bullet, and/or powder combination selected. When velocities flatten out even though charge weights increase, it's time to stop and back off, is only one example.

I can tell you without a doubt, accuracy is not contingent, as others have previously stated, upon small ES and SD. Accuracy is where you find it, ES and SD are simply along for the ride.
That being said, when shooting long distances with BPCRs, 500yds out to- you can barely see the target, absolutely, ES is as critical as is group size, single digit ES with BP is the goal, and it is achievable. Go to a BPCR match with loads that give a 50fps ES, well ain't special, thank you for coming, enjoy yourself, you will miss either over and or under.

One thing that I have found interesting in regards to chronograph readings and published data. Lyman's cast bullet data for rifles is usually pretty darn close to what you will see over a chronograph, much closer than jacketed data.

 

[L Ross]

Personally when it comes to rifles, I like shooting over a chronograph, just cuz, I like to see what is happening and find it interesting, sometimes for no other reason. There are times when a chronograph is very useful in when developing a load when no data is published for the cartridge, bullet, and/or powder combination selected. When velocities flatten out even though charge weights increase, it's time to stop and back off, is only one example.

I can tell you without a doubt, accuracy is not contingent, as others have previously stated, upon small ES and SD. Accuracy is where you find it, ES and SD are simply along for the ride.
That being said, when shooting long distances with BPCRs, 500yds out to- you can barely see the target, absolutely, ES is as critical as is group size, single digit ES with BP is the goal, and it is achievable. Go to a BPCR match with loads that give a 50fps ES, well ain't special, thank you for coming, enjoy yourself, you will miss either over and or under.

One thing that I have found interesting in regards to chronograph readings and published data. Lyman's cast bullet data for rifles is usually pretty darn close to what you will see over a chronograph, much closer than jacketed data.

Thanks Michael. I was going to point that out, BPCR long range, there it does matter, and I am seeing it in .22 long rifle ammo as we started shooting out to 400 yards. And you're right, it is not so much group spread radially as it is over under. .22 rimfire has to be the one of the most interesting/frustrating things to play with as Pope found out. You personally have little control over the ammo quality, and in today's environment the availability and cost is dimming some of the luster of the game.

 

[Bret4207]

In short, it only matters if it does, to quote someone who I can't remember...lol

Backasswards- "It doesn't matter until it does."

Lot of good observations here. It comes back to all the little variations adding up to the pro or con side of the issue. SD means consistency, but something else may over ride it I imagine.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Best way to produce accurate reloads is consistency. Across the board with every component, process and application.

Something we all strive for... perfection in anything we care for/about.

It is not magic or some hidden methodology or process. Knowing paying attention to cause, effect and of coarse application.

CW

 

[Brad]

Velocity variations matter as the range gets longer. At 100 yds they don’t mean much.
A chrony is a useful tool but hardly the final answer

 

[Snakeoil]

I agree that a chrono is another tool to help you achieve your goals. Last Wed, my shooting partner and a very accomplished rifle shooter was test out some new loads in his .32-40 Browning TH. He'd found a 10# jug of PB and wanted to see how it would do. PB used to be listed in Lyman's CBH for cast bullet loads. I forget what the load was. I was spotting and I could not believe what I was seeing. We set a 9 inch plate at 200 yards and his first shot was 4 feet low. He corrected (Unertl 15X) and the next shot bounce off the range well in front of the target. Another correction and that shot when 6 feet right. Next shot 6 feet left. Then two went over the sandy part of the berm into the weeds. We had two spotters by then and the other spotter noticed one of the hits in the weeds. The others we assume went there because no other impacts were seen. He then hits the target and we figure things might get better. Nope. Next one is 8 feet to the right. It was just barely in the field of view of the Kowa. He had his chrono with him and had 5 or 6 rounds left. We set it up to see what was going on. The velocity was in the 1400 fps range and the SD was 10 fps. So, it certainly was not a consistency in velocity that was making it look like he was throwing rocks.

He's gonna bump up the charge to achieve around 1450 and see how that works. The bullet is the same one that shoots like a laser with his 2400 load. Only variable here was change of powder and resultant reduction in velocity. If I did not see it with my own eyes, I would have thought the results to have been a bit exaggerated. Just the day before another member said he spotted for someone trying out 5744 in a rifle and said he could not keep his shots on a piece of plywood at 100 yds. I thought he was talking in technicolor until I watch those bulllets scatter all over the place at 200 that day.

 

[RicinYakima]

If it were I, reducing the load to 1250 would be a better step.

 

[Snakeoil]

Perhaps. Only testing will tell. We shoot out to 500 yds. I did not ask Steve this but suspect that with 2400 and this bullet he is in the 1450 range. I will pass along the input.

 

[todd]

in the "one hole" department, you have opened a can of PO lions . there is the brass prep(weigh individual cases, weigh bullets, trim exactly the OAL, trim the outer case neck, do primer pockets........and a whole lot else!!!), bullet weight, powder types, benchrest primers or regular primers and i can go on and on. did it, done it, i ain't doin it again!!!!!

i use a chrony when i'm satisfied on the load, after years, my 9.3x57 and 20 vartarg have to go to the chrony. my most accurate handload was the 20 vartarg and 32gr hornady v max with rel7 and a cci br primer went .153" at 100 yards on a bench and 5 shots(10 shots/.217" at 100 yards). it is a tc encore with a 23" MGM heavy factory barrel and a high plains gunstock and a 6 -24x bushnell. now its a 34gr midway/midsouth hp and rel7 with winchester/federal/cci small rifle primer and it goes 1/2 - 3/4" at 100 yards with 5 shots/bench. why did i do it? because i can. am i going to do it again? NO!!! H!@# NO!!!!!!! now the encore is after groundhogs, 'yotes and foxes with an occasional target(paper, cans....) thrown in. i tried to be one of those benchrest guys, but i like shooting reloads more than handloading.

 

[Snakeoil]

Late friend of mine was a member here and a serious benchrest shooter. His alias here was Sendaro. Great guy. He'd moved on for the most part from benchrest and was shooting relics with us at Wilton. I think he liked the cast of characters. Nobody takes anything too seriously at Wilton. But he still turned all his necks and all the other benchrest stuff and his efforts were rewarded with winning most matches off the bench with one of his 44-1/2 rifles or his 03A3.

I think is proudest moment was when he won a benchrest match with his .204 Ruger sporting rifle. This was at Pinetree, the birthplace of benchrest shooting. His pissed off more than a few shooters who had big bucks in their benchrest guns that day. He primarily used that rifle for woodchucks.

I have to admit that when I saw the subject of this thread, at first, I thought it was going to be a humor piece. I'm not sure there is a finite list of all the things you could do to improve hand loaded cartridges. Some may make infinitesimal improvements, but put together enough of them and you have one big improvement. But I'd rather shoot.

 

[JWFilips]

Best way to produce accurate reloads is consistency. Across the board with every component, process and application.

Something we all strive for... perfection in anything we care for/about.

It is not magic or some hidden methodology or process. Knowing paying attention to cause, effect and of coarse application.

Doing things the best we can is a goal I'm sure most of us strive for! After all we are all a bit insane!
I have always found doing things as consistently as I can gave me the must enjoyment in everything I have tried to do!
If you can't do it right or enjoy what you do...move on to something else to strive for!
I do know doing what you feel you need to do, is far more satisfying then doing what someone tells you to do ( or don't do).