HS7 or v-N110 for 357 Mag lightweight bullet with Hot load

[JonB]

I am planning to load some full-house 357 Mag loads (1600+ fps) for the NOE 358-128-SWC (plain base) cast with a strong alloy and actual weight is 130gr.

I would like some input from our seasoned pistol ammo loaders if you have experience with Hodgdon HS7 and Vihtavuori N110?
I have a few lbs of each in my stash, I have never used either flavor before. I'd think either one might work well for this application, but there isn't a great amount of data from my usual trusted sources. Below is the data I was able to find

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Here is what I found for HS7:

Lyman 49th
120gr Lead RN (linotype alloy) mold 356242
Start 10gr 1050fps
Max 13.2gr 1436fps

Lee Manual 2nd ed.
125gr jacketed
start 11.5gr 1511fps
MAX 12.5gr 1604fps

Nick Harvey's reloading Manual (I really like this manual because he "independently" developed his own data)
110gr JSP
start 12gr 1570fps
MAX 13gr 1650fps


=====================================
Here is what I found for v-N110:

Lee Manual 2nd ed.
124gr Lead (COAL-1.614)
start 15.7gr 1546fps
MAX 17.4gr-c 1699fps

Lee Manual 2nd ed.
145gr Lead
start 14.0gr-c 1475fps
MAX 15.3gr-c 1591fps

Lyman 49th
150gr Lead (linotype alloy)mold 358477
start 13.2gr 1152fps
MAX 14.7gr 1374fps

Gun-Guides "reloading guide for 357 Mag Revolvers"
I rarely use these little blue booklets you see at gunshows, but I do have a few and this one had Vihtavuori data, also they credit Vihtavuori and other powder manufacturers in the forward
124gr LSWC Intercast (COAL-1.614)
start 17.1gr 1673fps
MAX 18.7gr 1813fps
I included COAL because it matches the Lee data for 124gr and it's a specific unique length, as I suspect Lee got this data from Vihtavuori, but it's interesting that the charges and speed is different

Vihtavuori website
They don't list the 124gr LSWC for some reason, but they have a couple Jacketed loads that are fairly similar.
125gr JHP, Sierra (COAL-1.575)
start 16.3gr 1783fps
MAX 18.5gr-c 1811fps

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So after comparing all these charges and knowing my target is around 1600fps or a bit more,
I have extrapolated that if I use HS7, I'll start at 11.0gr and work up to 12.5gr.
OR
If I use v-N110, I "might" start at 15.0gr and work up. But first I need to investigate case capacity, especially since I suspect N110 prefers a full case much like H110...of course I do not know that, I only suspect it from the narrow data on Vihtavuori's website.

If anyone knows for sure about N110, please make a specific comment, because they don't go into much detail on their website.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/powder/n110-rifle-powder/

Also, since the HS7 data is really slim, what are you all using HS7 for?
Thanks for any info you feel like adding.

 

[Winelover]

I would just use the VV jacketed data. Working it up to where you want to be. You'd probably be at or above 1800 fps, with the starting load. Since cast will be faster, less resistance, than jacketed.

BTW, is this out of a pistol or carbine?

 

[Spindrift]

I’ve never owned a .357 magnum, so I can’t help you on the spesifics.
But I use a lot of N110, it is my favourite cast bullet powder for 16-1800fps rifle loads. Also use it in one straight case, .44 auto mag.

My experience is, this is a highly flexible powder (unlike what I read about H110). It works really well at low load densities in ifle cases without filler (like 19grs in .30-06).

I bet N110 would work fine.

 

[Rick H]

I use HS7 for magnum 12 ga. shotgun shells, both 2 3/4" and 3" and for 40 S&W with 180gr. Jkt. or Cast bullets (Actually W/W571) I have about 3# of the stuff and once it is gone....its gone. Last I heard it was discontinued some years ago. There used to be a lot of data in old manuals, but once they discontinued it, the manuals have been dropping it from load data.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Blue Dot is my powder of choice for the 357 heavies. Never used much HS7. I think I still have some of the first can I bought thirty years ago!!

 

[JonB]

I would just use the VV jacketed data. Working it up to where you want to be. You'd probably be at or above 1800 fps, with the starting load. Since cast will be faster, less resistance, than jacketed.

BTW, is this out of a pistol or carbine?

Pistol, mostly for my 4" Ruger GP-100

 

[JonB]

I’ve never owned a .357 magnum, so I can’t help you on the spesifics.
But I use a lot of N110, it is my favourite cast bullet powder for 16-1800fps rifle loads. Also use it in one straight case, .44 auto mag.

My experience is, this is a highly flexible powder (unlike what I read about H110). It works really well at low load densities in ifle cases without filler (like 19grs in .30-06).

I bet N110 would work fine.

Hearing this "highly flexible powder (unlike what I read about H110). It works really well at low load densities in ifle cases without filler" is surprisingly good news. I'd prefer to stick around the 1600 fps range.

 

[JonB]

Blue Dot is my powder of choice for the 357 heavies. Never used much HS7. I think I still have some of the first can I bought thirty years ago!!

I quit using Blue Dot for near max loads, cause it can get spikey in cold weather.

 

[CZ93X62]

Jon B--

No experience with either of the powders you spoke of above.

LOTS of time-in-grade with the 357 Magnum, barrel lengths from 2.5" to 7.5". In terms of accuracy potential, 110 and 125 grain bullets are a waste of time. My theory--which applies to all revolvers in all calibers--if your bullet is not long enough to be fully-engaged by the forcing cone and its ogive seated into the barrel's rifling origin before the bullet base clears the cylinder face--it will not shoot with the accuracy of a longer bullet meeting those standards. Accuracy starts at about the 135-140 weight range (length, actually).

This not to say that 110 and 125 grain bullets are not effective--not at all. They just are not as accurate IME as are the longer/heavier bullets. My 357 carry loads (Federal #357B) are judged by FBI to be All That And A Bag Of Chips, and for two-legged predators at bad-breath to bedroom distances they will decisively stop aggression.

If I want to hunt varmints with the 357, I use #358156 atop 13.5 grains of 2400 lit by CCI 500 primers. 1240 FPS from my 4" 686, and about 1350 FPS from my 7.5" BisHawk. Accurate as all get-out.

 

[Winelover]

Bluedot use to be my go to powder for the 357 and Speer 158 jacketed. Probably, went though three 8 pound jugs, then I had to replace the barrel on my 6" Python.

Then I switched to cast, and moved to Hercules 2400..............never looked back.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I’m with Al on this. If your goal is simply to get the most velocity you can squeeze out of a 125ish grain bullet, you can achieve some impressive numbers. But I agree there may be better choices.

When I want to load magnum revolver cartridges there’s only one powder I turn to – H110 [AKA WW296].

I have used Vihavuori powders and found them to be excellent powders, albeit rather pricey. Probably the hottest 9mm Luger ammo I ever made was with 3 N 38 (not 3 N 37). I came to my senses and stopped chasing numbers on a chronograph.

Al mentioned the Federal 357B loading and that was “THE” load back in the American LE revolver days. It is still the SD load in a 4” revolver chambered in 357 mag. But that 125 grain Semi-jacketed, Semi-wadcutter, hollowpoint – is a relatively short bullet. You can push it pretty fast and inside about 25 yards, it has few rivals.

But If I was looking for something that wasn’t as hard on a revolver, I would look for a slightly heavier (read that as longer) bullet. Guns such as the N & L frame Smiths and the Ruger GP’s have a lot of metal in the barrel shank and can tolerate those shorter bullets better than a K-frame magnum. But even with those strong guns, those short bullets are hard on the gun.

 

[JonB]

You all have given me some great info and things to think about.
I will probably be reconsidering this project now.
Basically, I looked into my ammo closet and seen I was short on full house loads, and noticed I didn't have any lightweights.
then I seen the huge pile of NOE boolits I cast for the 9mm and then looked at the Powder shelf and seen those jugs of HS7 and the lonely 2 lb'er of N110... So I thought maybe I'll put them all together.

NOW, I'll probably be looking at the vintage 358156 mold (cheap gunshow find) I have that needs to be Leemented (I think?), I know I have a bunch of old Lyman GC's to use with them. Lots to think about. Probably put this on the backburner for a while.

 

[JonB]

Yesterday, I shot some loads using N110 and a NOE 160gr SWC (PB)...lots of published data for this.
The 13.3gr load did what I was looking for. More accurate than a load I worked up a few years ago, using H110 with the same boolit. I would have worked my way higher with the N110, but the batch of bullets I have were cast a couple years ago, with Auto battery term alloy mixed with range scrap, I measured BHN yesterday at 13.4
So I decided to not get near the Max load.

The N110 sure metered nice, I'm glad I saved this 2 lb jug...as it came from a big purchase (34 lbs of powder) from someone's estate and I flipped a lot of that purchase to recoup my investment.