HV rifle challenge

Bill W

New Member
I have a .30 BR that averages under 1.0" at 100 yards but because of conditions doesn't do that every single time. I averaged .61" at 100 the first time I shot in the Nationals if I throw out penalties I had for two shots that ended up on someone else's target. The rifle averaged .8 MOA for 5 and 10 shot groups at 100 and 200 yards counting the penaties. Had one time at a State shoot it got so hot that my groups went to hell on me.

Velocity was approximately 2000- 2100 fps. I've never chronographed it. I also never tried to see how fast it would go as my "aim" was to keep all shots in/on the 10 ring of a 100 yard CBA target. That's a rare occurrence as it's hard to hit the 10 ring with 20 scoring shots.
 

Bill W

New Member
I used LBT Blue and try to keep it only in the bottom lube ring. I do fiddle with other lubes but try and keep my sizers set up with one lube only so I don't have to keep cleaning them out.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
My first test loads are a mix of BAC and 2500...Too lazy to clean out the 450 and die.:rolleyes:
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
JUST AN OBSERVATION ABOUT THIS SITE

There is a high velocity thread (this one) here and one also going on the CB site.

JonB is a great guy and started a great thread over there and if anybody can keep some of that bunch straight he will. If it goes bad there(again) on a hv thread it's certainly no fault of his.

My point is that i've read through and also posted a little in that thread on the "other" site, but left it with a headache.

Here however, i've read through three pages on the same subject and have already picked up on a couple of things to try and my headache is gone.
Seems everybody here is only interested in "sharing" info and furthering cast bullet knowlege without all the drama.

Wonder which site i might learn the most about hv shooting with cast, or any other subject at?...DUH! No headaches either.

Sorry for the side tracking, but i just had to say this very thread has told me everything i need to know about all of you guys and this site.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
c'mon you guy's the 35 cals are cheating.
I bought a 358 win and a mold and got jacketed velocity's right out of the gate.
minus the 40-50 fps drop from using the slipperier lead boolits of course.
simple easy load in the 358 win.
48.5grs of rl-19 on top of the saeco #248 cast from my big batch of ww/soft and water dropped into the same 1 gallon pail of tap water as the 30 cal boolits are. [over 2300 fps]
minimally sized and checked to 358.
you can push the load to just over 50.0 grs if you want that much recoil.
I did maybe cheat a little and used some GGG marked 308 win brass and my 38 special steel die set [pacific] to open the cases and to neck sized the fire formed brass.
the groups are about all the little Hawkeye is gonna give with the 3x9 scope I put on it for hunting.

that load will flat out flip flop a 200 pound deer out to 150 yds.



that little 243 I just got is getting the barrel shot out this summer
[unless one of the kids works me a trade for it, by trade I mean give me back one of my other rifles]
then I'll get it re-barreled.
probably into a 1-10 7-08, or a 1-11 308 with a 20" barrel.
it should make a pretty decent truck gun now that I got the leupold 4x12 on top of it.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
one more thing right now is the time to start getting your stuff ready to do this.
prep that brass.
measure the necks, measure the outer part of the brass fired in that gun.
measure the case thickness.

check those primer pockets.
check the flash holes.
pay strict attention to your casting [put a clock up above the casting pot and use it]
focus on how you are filling that mold and exactly how long your letting it sit before opening the plate.
measure the diameter from that mold when pouring in it at just past the shiny stage [temp] versus the open close fling them out close fill rate of casting.
weight a batch of boolits from both methods.
look at the base of your boolits when opening the cutter, can you make them all look nice and round/sharp edges, or have the same tear or bump or flatness.

look at those gas checks.
are they square on the edges?
can Brads tool help you there?
are they going on straight?
are they square on the sides?

are you wiping the boolits edges when sizing?
why?
is the mold out of round?
are your boolits too big to begin with?
add some softer lead and make them closer to the final diameter needed.
check that nose for roundness.
lap the mold using the pour through the bolt method.

I gotta get the garage cleaned out and start casting [about 2 billion] 9mm boolits, and get some cores made/swaged before winter is over.

I have weight sorted 30 cal and weight sorted 224 boolits waiting for summer already.
 

Maven

Well-Known Member
35 shooter, I've PM'ed Brad, Ian, and yesterday, JonB about the very problem you mentioned + the idea that a useful post in one area of that site isn't recognized as potentially useful on another. But why beat around the bush about HV when there is relevant information (over there, believe it or not) to consider. First, in the Gas Check sub-forum, there is mention of the Wilk gas check. Freightman's post #13 if I'm not mistaken, has a link to an August '88 article from "Hand Loader" magazine, which certainly provides food for thought about HV (via reinforcing the CB's body/driving bands). There's also E.H. Harrison's work on paper patching for HV, which appeared in the NRA publication, "Cast Bullets" (1982), which is also worth considering.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I gotta get Tom to cut me a new .30-caliber mould, and maybe that 35 cal that I was talking to Ben about in another thread.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
Wow, lots of good things being said about 35 cal. Makes me glad i picked the whelen for my first cast bullet rifle.

For this project though, i'd like to get started with my new .308 and a noe clone of the saeco 315. I've never worked with a tapered bullet like that before and am very curious to give it a try.

Already picked up some tips here on a powder to try along with a couple of others i have on hand.
I sure like the mauser action it's made on and that will be a first for me to load for also.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
For this project though, i'd like to get started with my new .308 and a noe clone of the saeco 315. I've never worked with a tapered bullet like that before and am very curious to give it a try.

I suggest keeping it out of your Lubrisizer and finger lube each one. Run that tapered bullet through a pressurized lube die and you won't have a lubed bullet, you will have a tube of lube with a bullet in the middle. That little fact has kept me from using my SAECO 4 cav #315 for many years.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
That didn't work for me Ian. The driving band above the last groove lubed must seal it and if it's smaller, and it is, lube will squirt up all over the bullet. PITA. That bullet may well shoot well but for me it just ain't worth finger lubing. Cookie cutting didn't work any better for me.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
Rick

I may have an ace in the hole on the lubeing with the 315 saeco.
I've been tumble lubing everything lately with BLL and it's worked as well for me as Ben's Red.
Anyway, that's the plan.

I've been using 1 coat, then size, then 2 more coats before shooting in rifles.

Yea, i was wondering how it might work out with traditional lube through the sizer. I'll try the BLL first.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
In my tests tumble lubes loose moa accuracy before reaching what I'd call high velocity & wouldn't meet the standard for the challenge. Haven't tried Bll yet.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
Bll has matched Ben's Red group for group with the same loads and speeds for me. However, it's the ONLY tumble lube that has.
I've been well pleased with it.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
for my NEI loverign version I use in the 30-30 bolt guns I just melt my simple lube in a cup and dip up to the second drive band.
set them on wax paper to cool.
then run them through the star to wipe everything clean and to seat the gas checks.

I found dip lubing to be easier than pain lubing.
and a semi-tight fitting cookie cutter type tool [made from a cut off case] pre-wipes most of the lube off the boolits.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Well, over two years later, I'm bringing this back.

A brief story about Yours Truly. Back when I handloaded by the same kerosene lamp that illuminated my high school homework, all I had was a Marlin .30-30 and the use of my Dad's .38 revolver. I used loads out of the Speer #11 book that came with my RCBS loading kit, and snuck a copy of a friend's Lyman #2 handbook to school and copied the 30-30 cast bullet pages to take home (should have just memorized "10 grains of Unique" :rolleyes:). Fine and dandy for popping cans and turtles in the creek, but I wanted more. I asked myself "Why can't I use the jacketed bullet data with gas-checked, cast bullets?" So I set out to try. Soon I was loading 34.5 grains of WW748 under a 311407 and having a ball. Much later I learned that I wasn't s'posed to do that 'cuz the bullets would fly everywhere, including sideways and backwards. Well, it wasn't so for me. About that time a fine old gentleman who was losing his vision (probably WMD, before it was understood) took me under his wing and loaned me a 1950's Winchester model 70, .30-'06 and fed me match-prepped brass and sized, lubricated bullets. He encouraged me to enter some NRA Hunter class matches at a nearby town, and when I got my driver's license and an old pickup hacked together, I was off to the races. Not knowing any better, I used the loads he gave me to work up, and years later I figured out we had that 311299 chooching along at over 2500 fps. I never won anything in the few matches I shot, but had fun and did reasonably well for a kid with no shooting mentor and old pants legs full of sand stacked up for rests. When I went off to college, I returned his rifle and all the other things he'd loaned me, along with my score targets from the matches. Sadly, he passed not long after and I found out too late to even attend his funeral. Being a dumb kid, I never realized that what we had done was really pretty special, and didn't think to ask questions about the hows and whys of all the brass prep work, or even the alloy he used to cast the bullets. My .30-30 didn't need any special attention to shoot great at full-throttle with cast, so I had nothing to clue me in that this isn't necessarily an easy thing to do. So, many years later, I started out again with my own rifles and had many, many disappointments. I found the internet, found things called bulletin boards, and even one dedicated to bullet casting and shooting. I also found out a lot I didn't want to know about human nature, but that's another story. Eventually I discovered a few like-minded people who seemed to know all the tricks, but getting good information was like pulling teeth, so I just shot and shot and tried this and that and finally started to get a handle on things. Would have been a heck of a lot easier if there hadn't been so much noise and heat, and had been a little more light. Anyway, here we are, in the place I wish had been around ten years ago, with just the facts and an encouraging, laid-back, helpful atmosphere.


Today, we have some people trying out what they've heard can't be done, and finding out it can be. Lots of work going on, lots of learning, and it's a blast to watch. I'm still learning a lot too, and am going to jump back into it again as soon as I have one other project squared away, which will be soon.

Let's see, we have Bama shooting PC bullets at lightspeed with great groups, but that's cheating! :eek: JK, I'm happy some people are giving HV, PC rifle bullets an objective, honest go and figuring out the capabilities and limitations (like fouling). Waco, Will, 35 Shooter, are all doing great with the .30-calibers, I'm impressed guys, keep it up!
 

Will

Well-Known Member
I just read all 3 pages of this thread and for some reason I can only get 2 things out of it.
35 Whelen
358 Winchester
Huh which one to get first?

On a serious note I really have received more help than one could hope for from this forum. I am very gracious for it and I look forward reading about others high velocity shooting and the path they used to get there.