I got a fever...and the only cure is a new rifle!

fiver

Well-Known Member
you could toggle link the bolt face forward but you'd be limited in pressure doing it that way.
you'd be better off with the falling block action, that's what the win 94 copied, only stretched to have the block in the back of the bolt.
so you have all kinds of options, even a turning interrupted thread under lever with a manual sliding bolt.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Ar trigger would need an extra link lever FP block safety. Stock tang from double angle welded into receiver.
 

Ian

Notorious member
No welding. Welding requires a three-step heat treat process afterward that I'm not up to on my first build. The heat treat also tends to warp stuff that's already been final machined and lapped.

If the tang safety rolled instead of slid it wouldn't need an extra link.
 

4060MAY

Active Member
Farrow Patent Dwgs, 1884 and 1887
US306391, US372213
good luck to you, I had a hard time finishing the FBW actions I have , actually the Model S still isn't finished, 35-30 Maynard, action is barrelled and has a stock on it, just never sems to be enough time in the day
 

popper

Well-Known Member
safety rolled instead of slid Iwas thinking a block that is between the AR hammer and the FP in the FB. Kinda 2 FB, one for dropping safety. Actually thinking marlin style trigger group would be easier. I know, AR group is easier to get.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Marlin hammer nose is behind the vertical line of the pivot pin, I already checked. Needs to be 3/8" forward of pin center to clear support metal bridge behind the breech block.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
that's what a mill and a band saw is for.
copy the hammer just with a longer nose make it as thick as you need it, and give it the torch heat treat.
the worst that happen is you have to re-shape the top some for clearance.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I was just mulling over the concept of trying to design the thing to use jellybean parts. Anything with precision fitted and finished things like pin holes and sear surfaces that I don't have to make from scratch would be a huge convenience.

We got 10/22 parts, AR, Marlin, 1911, S&W revolver, and some single-action stuff that's readily available, but none of it is quite right for this.

I found a sketch of the coolest-looking falling block ever in a PDF buried on the home gunsmithing forum. It has three major issues (no extractor, hammer and trigger rotate on the same pin which cannot work, and the firing pin cocks the hammer but the hammer is cramming the pin into the primer as the bolt is lowered. The guy built a couple and wrote many books so it had to work somehow, but no real technical drawings or blueprints exist that I've found yet. Some clues like no recoil lug for the action (one piece stock), off center firing pin, and no extractor tell me it was probably a rimfire .22.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Sharps side hammer isn't what you want but was welded together. No warp, 4140 and 22hornet loads @ ~35kpsi. Hardened internals but not the action itself. Pretty good machinist from the looks of his tools. Saw a perfect webly action for 30 Badger, guy is making castings for it. Could be machined and I'd change from leaf to coil hammer spring. Forget the name of the other version of Webly, but block pivits from the top of the action. For both, the block flips sideways. Break shotgun extractor would be neater. Just for ideas. http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin...89a71291eddf8da33733;act=ST;f=3;t=31265;st=40
Another interesting version.
webly5.jpg
sharpes.jpg
1588259024168.jpeg
 
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4060MAY

Active Member
Ian
The Book of Rifle Plans by DeHaas
contains plans for two different Vault Locks plus Rimfire and Center fire plans for a Chicopee
 

Ian

Notorious member
Ric, I didn't tell the whole story but that is a reasonable assumption. There were photos of two very finely-finished rifles, a cylindrical block and a rectangular block version, so it seems they were built but I don't have all the documentation and the author only provided sketches of the internals that leave a lot to the imagination.

20200429_222724_20200430124905784.jpg
 

Ian

Notorious member
Couldn't find the rest, fortunately I left the file open on my home computer. The rifle and book are by Bill Holmes.

20200430_184402.jpg
 

Ian

Notorious member
A photo of the whole rifle. I think it's one of the neatest rifles I've ever seen. The design can be improved for strength and function and just mught work for what I want. Its a concept to work toward, anyway.

20200430_190445.jpg
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it looks like there is a second spring under the trigger, and the under lever cocks the whole thing into that notch on the trigger.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I still don't follow how the hammer and trigger can engage/disengage by pivoting on the same pin. Also, the hammer resetting the safety is a great feature but will not work without another piece in there because you wouldn't be able to push it off safe. All these problems have been worked out on other rifles and I'm sure were worked out on this one, we just don't have good working drawings of it.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking that link to the firing pin is the key.
it wouldn't be too hard to move a pin down and to the right from the pin in that link for the trigger.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Hope this helps. For the webley design, change to coil spring with dog-leg strut like Win levergun. Then stock can be straight or pistol grip.
action.jpg
 
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popper

Well-Known Member
Maybe better? Heavy pivot hammer inertia hit pin, pivot allows to drop and spur actually cocks spring?

CCF_000102.jpg