I need a bigger hammer
- Thread starter Ian
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Will
Well-Known Member
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
I am of the opinion that you can't go too big/fat/heavy for hogs. I don't care about speed. I just want to hit them with a train! Slow moving is fine. I killed my one (in Germany) with a 6.5x55 120 grn. 80 lber/80 yds. and dropped it. BUT, it was after getting caught on the ground by a herd of ~200! Scared chit outta me!
Today, I go for pigs, it is 45-70, 38-55, 35 Rem, and 45 Colt or 44 SPC Ruger sidearms! I got the 300 BO on a lark, and thought about it for deer and maybe pigs, but doubt I will ever use it, and prob gonna sell it.
Today, I go for pigs, it is 45-70, 38-55, 35 Rem, and 45 Colt or 44 SPC Ruger sidearms! I got the 300 BO on a lark, and thought about it for deer and maybe pigs, but doubt I will ever use it, and prob gonna sell it.
Ian
Notorious member
Heavy and slow is great as long as you can connect. Sometimes when you get into a mess of them, or just two, figuring lead and drop can be tough. I had no problem connecting with my blackout after a two-second crash course in lead, but sure wished I'd had the Socom with 500-grainers and I do know my holdover at 100 yards. At 150 or 175, I would need to know exact range and practice leads. Throw in some wind and forget it.
I looked at the .358 Yeti and I have two problems with it: .473 case bodies are murder on AR-15 magazines (btdt with .45 Auto), and it needs to run at 55K psi to get the ballistics it gets. Proprietary bolt steel and reinforced barrel extensions scare me and are one of the reasons I avoided the .450 Bushmaster. It's cool that somebody figured out how to make a .358 Winchester equivalent for the Little AR, but.......no thanks.
I'm leaning more and more toward a .375 Socom. 200-grain bullets at 2200 fps from a 12" barrel says yes to me. Trajectory and retained energy is also very good out to 200 yards, requiring little correction and delivering the freight. However, I haven't ruled out building a 12" .458 Socom specifically for 250-grain bullets with a rebated boat tail and somewhat streamlined nose with small meplat.
I looked at the .358 Yeti and I have two problems with it: .473 case bodies are murder on AR-15 magazines (btdt with .45 Auto), and it needs to run at 55K psi to get the ballistics it gets. Proprietary bolt steel and reinforced barrel extensions scare me and are one of the reasons I avoided the .450 Bushmaster. It's cool that somebody figured out how to make a .358 Winchester equivalent for the Little AR, but.......no thanks.
I'm leaning more and more toward a .375 Socom. 200-grain bullets at 2200 fps from a 12" barrel says yes to me. Trajectory and retained energy is also very good out to 200 yards, requiring little correction and delivering the freight. However, I haven't ruled out building a 12" .458 Socom specifically for 250-grain bullets with a rebated boat tail and somewhat streamlined nose with small meplat.
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Ian
Notorious member
The Socoms both max at 35K psi and use large pistol primers. The pressure limit was determined by simple extrapolation of case head diameter and thrust force, with a margin for the missing metal from the .473" case rim built in. Basically they operate at normal .223 force levels, except for recoil of course, which is hard on adjustable stocks and action pins. What's really appealing to me from a reliability and end-user standpoint is the case shape because it fills the width of the magazines fully and doesn't try to stagger at all. The single-stack doesn't tend to spread feed lips, fountain, or jam. Put seven rounds in a 20-round magazine and keep a spare in the back pocket at all times and you have plenty of firepower.
The .375 Socom isn't in my Quickload program, but it's supposed to hold nearly 60 grains of powder. I was able to get 50 grains of Reloder 7 in the .458 with a 230-grain bullet and stay just under max pressure while just barely missing 2000 fps from a 10.5" barrel, so it might be worth playing with that some and seeing how well my suppressor handles 8K psi at the muzzle.
The .375 Socom isn't in my Quickload program, but it's supposed to hold nearly 60 grains of powder. I was able to get 50 grains of Reloder 7 in the .458 with a 230-grain bullet and stay just under max pressure while just barely missing 2000 fps from a 10.5" barrel, so it might be worth playing with that some and seeing how well my suppressor handles 8K psi at the muzzle.
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F
freebullet
Guest
45 raptor is the cast hammer we are missing. In a semi carbine configuration they aren't unwieldy. My wife uses one in 308.
The weight is what helps keep it steady. I do worse with lightweight rifles offhand vs ones that may be a scootch heavier than I'd like. It also soaks up recoil better than anything.
On the 308, great, we have a baseline. I think that is impressive that the bullets failed & STILL KILLED IT. It's one of the reasons I really like splodies for broadsides, it doesn't fail to kill rapidly ime.
I have zero idea how hard those were pushed but, do know hornady is all about velocity, for drop on that match stuff. I would say give those another shot, but work a load down. If they blow up to fast, slow them down. If they blow up to late, speed them up. It's really that simple. Unless we get in to something crazy it plain works for broadside culling.
If you swage your own you can change things(jacket material/thickness, bonding, inner alloy, ect.) to make your perfect bullet. Fiver could expand on that.
I wouldn't expect expensive African game bullets to perform much better in the way of instant killing. I would expect them to cost alot, expand reliable, but maybe not increase the quickness of the kill. That takes turning insides to mush, that takes explosions inside. Ymmv
The weight is what helps keep it steady. I do worse with lightweight rifles offhand vs ones that may be a scootch heavier than I'd like. It also soaks up recoil better than anything.On the 308, great, we have a baseline. I think that is impressive that the bullets failed & STILL KILLED IT. It's one of the reasons I really like splodies for broadsides, it doesn't fail to kill rapidly ime.
I have zero idea how hard those were pushed but, do know hornady is all about velocity, for drop on that match stuff. I would say give those another shot, but work a load down. If they blow up to fast, slow them down. If they blow up to late, speed them up. It's really that simple. Unless we get in to something crazy it plain works for broadside culling.
If you swage your own you can change things(jacket material/thickness, bonding, inner alloy, ect.) to make your perfect bullet. Fiver could expand on that.
I wouldn't expect expensive African game bullets to perform much better in the way of instant killing. I would expect them to cost alot, expand reliable, but maybe not increase the quickness of the kill. That takes turning insides to mush, that takes explosions inside. Ymmv
fiver
Well-Known Member
I can but I think Ian's heard it 6 or 70 times from me already... LOL.
I'm a fan of the 375's too unfortunately there is a bullet void between 200 and 275grs as well as a 600 fps velocity gap between the intended purpose of the two weights.
something like a pair of @ 240gr [or one 240 and one 250] spire point partition with two different nose alloys at about 2400 fps would be just about ideal for the 375 caliber as far as an all around mid range North American cartridge goes..
I'm a fan of the 375's too unfortunately there is a bullet void between 200 and 275grs as well as a 600 fps velocity gap between the intended purpose of the two weights.
something like a pair of @ 240gr [or one 240 and one 250] spire point partition with two different nose alloys at about 2400 fps would be just about ideal for the 375 caliber as far as an all around mid range North American cartridge goes..
Ian
Notorious member
Yes. Otherwise I'd thread my .35 Remington for a suppressor. I'm tired of compromising, and as these things go word gets around that "Ian hunts pigs" so I'm getting more invites.
Will
Well-Known Member
I agree that they are running at high pressures but I feel with proper metallurgy and heat treating it should not be a problem.
I actually bought quite a few parts to build a 458 socom but I believe I’m going to back out. I just really don’t enjoy getting beat with recoil anymore.
I actually bought quite a few parts to build a 458 socom but I believe I’m going to back out. I just really don’t enjoy getting beat with recoil anymore.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
I've learned in the past two or three years that heavy recoil may have some negative effects on my eyes.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Some of you might recall my ongoing dalliances with the 9.3 x 62 Mauser from the old site. Briefly, Marie and I had a bad time with a black bear in Summer 2002, and the Redhawk 44 Mag I had along to repel boarders seemed just a bit weak and lacking at the time. No actual hostilities commenced, but it was sobering nonetheless.
My response was to get a Mauser 98-based turnbolt in 9.3 x 62, which is a darn fine caliber. Its jacketed-bullet work is exemplary (at least on paper), and its cast bullet bit has been most positive. I had Mountain Molds cobble up a 270 grain flatnose in late 2002, and it has turned in some excellent groups when run from 1500 to 2000 FPS. Once past the 1800 FPS mark, the rifle does start to whack you around some, fired from the bench.
So the best thing to do is use the rifle as it was intended--to whack critters with. No large game so far with it, but what the 270 grainers do to coyotes at 75-150 yards is not suitable for delicate audiences. It is not a BANG/flop, more of a BANG/cartwheeling slam to the ground. Not for pelt hunting, let's just say. And I don't notice the thump when sights are on fur. There is a definite accuracy sweet spot 50 FPS either side of 1750 FPS, too.
My response was to get a Mauser 98-based turnbolt in 9.3 x 62, which is a darn fine caliber. Its jacketed-bullet work is exemplary (at least on paper), and its cast bullet bit has been most positive. I had Mountain Molds cobble up a 270 grain flatnose in late 2002, and it has turned in some excellent groups when run from 1500 to 2000 FPS. Once past the 1800 FPS mark, the rifle does start to whack you around some, fired from the bench.
So the best thing to do is use the rifle as it was intended--to whack critters with. No large game so far with it, but what the 270 grainers do to coyotes at 75-150 yards is not suitable for delicate audiences. It is not a BANG/flop, more of a BANG/cartwheeling slam to the ground. Not for pelt hunting, let's just say. And I don't notice the thump when sights are on fur. There is a definite accuracy sweet spot 50 FPS either side of 1750 FPS, too.
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