Ideal #357446

[Lost Dog]

Once sold as "The ideal .357mag bullet" according to my old 1953 Ideal Handbook. Never loaded one or had seen one since I was always a 358429 kinda guy. But yesterday I tossed a lightweight bid on a single cavity with some old Ideal handles on it, and by a twist of fate, won.
So I guess I'll see how well it casts when it gets here huh? Anyone got some insight on this discontinued old bullet?

 

[Ben]

http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/357446-hp.192/

Starting in Ideal Handbook #33 (published in 1939), Lyman touted the 160 grain plain-based 357446 as "the standard bullet for the Magnum", and continued to promote it as such for many years. This bullet is similar to the H&G #48, except that the forward lube groove had been converted to a beveled crimp groove.

The 357446 is avoided by MANY, loved but by a few................

Ben

 

[Lost Dog]

Thanks Ben. I knew you probably had one. ;-)
Reading that link to your thread sounds like many folks had one and sold 'em. Now I've given a few to my younger brother, and had some get "borrowed forever" (in law terms: theft by conversion) but I never sold one.
I remember reading about this bullet and nothing was said being bad in the old days. And the folks that sold the mould are in the antiques business and only knew it was an old Ideal mould and know nothing about casting. It is said to be clean for it's age and no rust in the mould, but some on the handles. Like I said, we'll see.

 

[RicinYakima]

Ben is right, in that many folks panned this design. It is very accurate for me, it was my first mould for 38 Special in about 1965. What others didn't like was that it has to sit deeper in the case and that takes up powder room. The '429 has the highest potential velocity, so it has to be better right? The '446 is much better than the older '443 and has a thick base band. I have not used it much since I sold the .357 Marlin (it would feed with 357 brass), but there are so many others. Enjoy the mould and try it, I think you will find it just works as well as any other.

 

[Lost Dog]

Thanks, the mould is due Friday by the tracking gizmos. Now I'm getting "antsy" to get it and start casting! And I'm known for having so much patience that I put Job out of a job!
So I'll try to find the powder tube for my old #5 Ideal measure. I think the rattling about the bench caused it to vibrate out of the measure and now I can't find it! And of course if I don't, I sure can't expect Lyman to have a replacement tube for a 1903 powder measure! From what I hear they'd try selling me a new #55, which already got one from 1960!

 

[KHornet]

Have a double cav 466. It is a good mold and produces a good shooting bullet. So does the 429, both are just fine in my opinion for whatever it is worth.

 

[Lost Dog]

The USPS must a heard me chompin' at the bit 'cause the mould arrived today, 2days ahead of schedule. considering the age of the mould and handles, it's in good shape. I took pictures but I can't post 'm with a phone. But take it from me, the inside of the mould is 100% rust free. Still had oil inside.
Now to cast up a mess and see how things go. I'll have a SITREP (report) on it soon. For $32 for an Ideal mould with old original handles I didn't do too bad. Like my old man used to say "Beats a jab in the eye with a sharp stick!"

 

[Lost Dog]

Those old Ideal handles get hot! Been a while using those small short rascals. But the mould works great. Likes the metal hot and then it casts fast for a single cavity. So smooth about a third of them fall when opened and the rest just need a tap on the hinge for a clean drop. Pretty impressive.

With my "mystery metal" the bullet mikes out at .360" and weighing in at 164gr. About the same weight as my Keith HP bullet in this metal. So I'm happy with the mould and it casts fast and easy. The big test will be the shooting part in a few days. I was out today with my single action with some of those painted bullets. They shot ok, but smell funny. Gun sure stays clean! But I was testing them and getting me 50 once fired .38Spl cases at the same time. I was multitasking!

 

[KHornet]

Keep us posted on your progress Lost Dog. Seems like I am finding less and less of the colored bullets in the berms. The fad must be tapering off!

 

[Lost Dog]

Yup, I bought a hundred of those painted 158 SWC's from Acme Bullets last year and loaded them then in new .38Spl cases but never got around to shooting them. But I needed the brass for the 357446 so I blasted my 10" plate from 15 to 50yds. So as soon as my casting from yesterday is cured some I'll be loaded and shooting them.

But, about those red bullets. I shot 50 of them in my Uberti Mod P and it was remarkably clear of debris. Just minor powder fouling and zero lead. Hardly any smoke when fired. But sure smelled funny. Must be the paint. If I could get em in black I'd be happy. Somehow a bright red bullet in a shiny brass case looked a whole lot like my mother's lipstick from the 50's! Made me feel sorta weird shooting them.

 

[Lost Dog]

Ok. Let the castings cure for two days. Long enough for me. Sized at .358", into once fired Starline .38Spl cases, with 5gr of Unique and Fed sm primers. Loaded in my old Ideal 310 tong tool. How appropriate? Yeah, that's what I thought.

At 15yds on my fresh painted 10"x10" iron plate, I got busy.smacking the center was too easy. Stepped back to 25yds and still drilled the center. A few at 30yds still in the 3" painted circle and with 20 rounds fired there I said "accurate projectile" and fired 5 more to check the "minute of coke can" and hit 4 outta 5. Good enough.

All shooting with my trusty Uberti Mod P .357mag, 4 3/4" SAA revolver. 25 rounds and zero lead. The NRA 50/50 lube in those two grooves and that thick fat base kept blow by at bay and allowed to enjoy this new bullet in my sorta new sixgun! Next will be loads in a .357mag case with 6~ 7gr of Unique.

But so far this old bullet is showing me fine accuracy and performance. Far better than I expected first time outta the bag. Best $32 I've spent in quite a while.

 

[Lost Dog]

Hey Ben, I was checking some others that spoke of the 357446 on a site where they didn't know how to spell the word "bullets" correctly. A vast majority spoke of this bullet like it was spawned from the fires of Hades and is the curse of all mankind! Funny as I find it remarkably accurate at a multitude of ranges and velocity. 5gr of Unique in a .38Spl was great. 7gr in a .357mag was lively, tight shooting, and left nothing in the bore that even remotely resembled lead. I can't see the issue.
But I'll see if things change with A#5 or #9. And I heard that 5gr of Red Dot in a .38Spl case is pure magic. I got time. What else do I have to do? But those guys at the place with misspelling sure had it in for this bullet!

 

[KHornet]

Well Dog, as the old yankee saying goes; "some people wouldn't be happy even if ya hung'um with a new rope!"

 

[Lost Dog]

Yup!

My neighbor across the road came over for some shootin' time yesterday afternoon with his early Ruger New Model Blackhawk. 357mag. We were blasting away at the plate having a great time. He tried the 446 with the 5gr of Unique .38Spl and the 7gr in .357mag and hammered the plate all the way back to 50yds with great success. In fact he grinned saying "cast me some. I like 'em!"

So I guess at least these two Texas sixgunners are either delusional and don't know that others said this bullet sucks, or those other fellers ought'ta come on down for some Texas shootin' lessons! Maybe we're just blessed with good clean air and country livin'. I dunno.

 

[John]

I read that Skeeter liked it. I never could get the LY DC I had to group and sold it. I believe it was undersized but that was in the mid 90's. It never tumbled but had a lot of yaw.

 

[Lost Dog]

Well John, I've known of this bullet for ages, but never got around to finding a mould for it until now. Tell ya the truth, it shoots just as straight and such that I really can't complain a bit... except for maybe not getting it sooner! And even if it's a single cavity, I remember using single cavity moulds for a long time before I got dual and four round moulds. It keeps me sassy! Ha!

 

[Lost Dog]

A 357446 update. Just snagged an old Ideal double cavity today for an incredible deal. So if it casts anywhere near as well as the single cavity I have now, then the DC will remain as a "bulk mould" and the single cavity will be made into a hollow point mould. I truly enjoy this bullet design even if others think it sucks.When/if I go for the single HP conversion, I'm looking towards the "shot glass" style HP as it will mostly be used in a 38Spl. I'll want as big a cavity up front as possible since I shoot an older S&W M&P .38Spl 4" that doesn't need to be rattled apart with hot loads that requires a hazmat label!

 

[Lost Dog]

The old Ideal double cavity arrived yesterday. Fairly clean and the blocks have some pitting on the bottom outside, but inside it was spotless and well oiled. Did a quick cleaning and went to casting.
After tossing that Lee "bottom plugger" last month and returning to dipping, I was getting great fully filled and proper bullets in no time. And the more I think about it the more I think I'll leave it alone. I don't need a hollow point mould as I already have a Lyman 358429HP that does just fine. Think I'll send the other to my brother up in S. Dakota. He likes old Ideal moulds. And I noticed the D.C. mould casts an ever so slightly shorter bullet that weighs 2gr less than the SC mould. Both have identical body matching from base to front driving bands. I almost didn't spot it.

And it just flabbergasts me how folks talk so bad about this bullet as it's performance for me in a 60 year old Smith and a new 2014 SAA revolver have been exemplary. I'll keep it as it is and cast my brains out and coat 'em with Hi-Tek and go nuts in my woods! Guess I'm easily entertained.

 

[Ben]

Lost Dog,

I think it best that we draw our own conclusions.
( Hopefully based on our own field testing. )
Everyone with a computer keyboard may not be
the know it all that they allege that they are .

Ben

 

[CZ93X62]

#358477 has been my go-to 38 Special mould since 1981. #358429 came along later (maybe 1998) and it has been decent. I have not used either design in full-snort 357s, just in my 900-1050 FPS mid-range loads. The only experience I've had with #358446 was 200 samples sent by a correspondent about 10 years ago. They shot very well for me, from 800 FPS in 38 Specials to 1200 FPS in 357 Magnums. All three plain-base Lyman 38/357 bullets shoot well for me, and I would happy with any or all of them. For full-value 357s, I use #358156, a Lee Group Buy 180 grain flatnose GC (what a GREAT rifle bullet!), or #358430.