IMR 4227

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
Give me your thoughts please.

Here’s my limited experience…

CVA Scout 22 inch barrel
250gr powder coated (RCBS) bullet, no gas check
Bullets sized to .430
Shooting at 50 yards
Accuracy is ok with some groups, around an inch but others there are obvious flyers.
Fairly heavy crimp.

19gr, large pistol primers. 12 rounds, had some “less than full power“ shots, lots of un burnt powder in the barrel.

I thought the power and powder issue might the large primer issue. I used them first just to test it.

Today, I shot 12 more of the same load except with a large pistol magnum primer. Had one “less than full power” bad still lots of un burnt powder after every shot.

Do I need to add more powder and to get rid of all air space or even compress it?
Size to .432? (I don’t have a .431)
Switch to Win 296? I have 8lbs of 4227 but if it don’t shoot in the 44 it is what it is…
Switch to rifle primers?
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
44 mag.? I have a CVA Scout in 44 Mag. I use 2400 behind a 235gr. cast and Win 296 with 240gr. jacketed. I have never tried 4227 with that cartridge.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I have always liked the powder. Burned about 4# of H4227 in my Herrett some time ago.

For me, IMR4227 is one of those powders I will always have on hand.

My goto 44 mag powder is 10g Unique & a 250 Cast.
But likely would like a 4227 load just as well.

CW
 

Michael

Active Member. Uh/What
I can't add much to what has been said, other than large rifle primers will not fit. same diameter, but taller, not an option. If you want more spark, large pistol mag, Fed-155 or CCI-350 are best route to take.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
44 mag.? I have a CVA Scout in 44 Mag. I use 2400 behind a 235gr. cast and Win 296 with 240gr. jacketed. I have never tried 4227 with that cartridge.
Yep! So far I’m really happy with it, much much better shooter than the Marlin 1894 I had before it.

I’m going to try both of those powders next and some Unique. I know Unique will work, cripes it’s worked great in everything I’ve tried it in but I’m getting low on it.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
I have always liked the powder. Burned about 4# of H4227 in my Herrett some time ago.

For me, IMR4227 is one of those powders I will always have on hand.

My goto 44 mag powder is 10g Unique & a 250 Cast.
But likely would like a 4227 load just as well.

CW
4227 has worked well in the 222 and 223 and we’ve shot some in the 45-70 with success. Maybe I’ll take to max and see what happens. I’ll use the pistol data and I know I’m going to blow up that CVA. That thing has 2-3 times the steel around the cylinder as my S&W 29 does.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
I can't add much to what has been said, other than large rifle primers will not fit. same diameter, but taller, not an option. If you want more spark, large pistol mag, Fed-155 or CCI-350 are best route to take.
CCI 350’s are what I shot today. I know I shouldn’t have to go to a stronger primer, it has to be something else.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
4227 has worked well in the 222 and 223 and we’ve shot some in the 45-70 with success. Maybe I’ll take to max and see what happens. I’ll use the pistol data and I know I’m going to blow up that CVA. That thing has 2-3 times the steel around the cylinder as my S&W 29 does.
I wouldnt worry. 44 mag runs under 40k. That same gun comes in CF rifle calibers to almost 60k with similar case head sizes.

Not that I think you would be fool hardy, any book loading Aughta be just fine.

CW
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I am not an advocate of randomly doing dumb stuff with off lable stuff . So apply due diligence to avoid doing dumb stuff .

With some help from a reputable knowledgeable fellow I loaded a 45 Colts with a 350 gr custom bullet for a 92' carbine . I felt comfortable with going to a pretty spicy peak pressure of 20kpsi as the platform was once built in both 44 mag and 454 it should hold 45 ACP pressures without issue . The object was to get Ruger light warm Colts 12-1300 fps MVs ME without going supersonic ,a plan that didn't work out . The bullet was for something else anyway ...
Back on point . I used H322 , took the QL data , subtracted 10% and launched 3/4 oz of lead at 1280 fps MV . I also decided that was stupid with a steel flat stock butt plate and a 45-70 would do that on like 12 gr of Unique .

If you missed it H322 , 4198 and probably 4895 off book in the case will get you a fuller case , low pressures , and push for 13-15" . 4895 is probably too slow to get hurt with even with a full case under a 300 gr .
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
IIRC IMR recommended 4895 with 240gr bullets.
300's would of course work, since you can't get as much in the case, making it a self limiting issue.
 

dale2242

Well-Known Member
I recently loaded some 44 Mags for a friends Marlin rifle using 4227.
The load was 20 gr. 4227 with a H&G # 45 GC cast from #2 alloy and a CCI large pistol magnum primer.
I used a heavy roll crimp.
He says it is one of the best loads he has used in that rifle.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
I wouldnt worry. 44 mag runs under 40k. That same gun comes in CF rifle calibers to almost 60k with similar case head sizes.

Not that I think you would be fool hardy, any book loading Aughta be just fine.

CW
Sorry CW, I meant to say ” I know I’m NOT going to blow up the CVA”. I’m a lousy poofreader sometimes…
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
I think I’m going to go heavier on the powder charge before I give up on it and I have plenty of room to work. 4227 is working well in the 45-70 with 330’s and 500’s.

We had the same issue and worse (squib loads ) with 3031 in the 45-70 and that went away with heavier charges (still under max).
 

Matt

Active Member
Years ago I tried IMR 4227 in .44 Magnum and had ignition issues as you described and worse, including fail to fires. Pulling the ones that did not go off showed scorched compressed powder charges. I switched from a standard pistol primer to the CCI #350. That solved the problem and I see you’ve already tried that. I found the powder was dirty and switched to 2400 and 296/H110 and haven’t looked back. I can’t find my records of the load I used but I’m guessing it was not maximum. I think I still have the rest of that can of 4227 on the shelf.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I'm sort of with Matt on this one.
For me there are two 44 loads in the magnum case. The Skeeter Equivalent in a magnum case and full power magnum loads.
The Skeeter equivalent load uses Unique and a 240-250ish LSWC. and in a magnum casing that ends up being about 8.2 grains of Unique.
The full power loads use whatever the appropriate amount of H110 is called for with a particular bullet.

When dealing with magnum loads- I adhere to the philosophy of "Go Big or Go Home".