Is FireClean(tm) really just Canola oil?

L1A1Rocker

L1A1Rocker

Active Member
There's a lot of back and forth going on this. I know this forum has some really smart folks when it comes to lubricants so I thought I'd put it out there to see what our resident experts have to say on it.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/yes-its-true-fireclean-is-crisco/

Initially, the idea that FIREClean was basically just Crisco started with rumors of a spectral analysis, but took off after July of this year, when AR15.com member 12_gauge posted a video to YouTube of a burn-off test between FIREClean and canola oil. The results of this poor man’s spectroscopy were that FireClean and the canola oil looked identical; not a conclusive result, but it began to raise suspicions. Further, FireClean founder Edward Sugg was listed on a patent available to the public listing alternative uses for vegetable oils, such as canola oil, including as firearms lubricants. It was with this that I was all but convinced: FIREClean was canola oil, commonly sold under the brand name “Crisco”. Yesterday the inimitable Andrew Tuohy, a contributor to this blog, posted an article proving to me beyond any doubt that FIREClean is vegetable oil. The results of the infrared spectroscopy he conducted are reproduced below: - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/yes-its-true-fireclean-is-crisco/#sthash.pqRw8Fuz.dpuf
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Good grief. Hydrogenated veggie fats have been used for lubricants since Roman times. They worked then, work now. I use Crisco in my black powder lube and it works well. Some of the most sophisticated engine oil on the planet is directly derived from Canadian Rapeseed oil. I don't see what the big deal is. If I told that dude what's in his precious Hoppe's #9 and what AIN'T in it any longer, and how to make some better stuff for 1/10 the price, he'd probably have a nervous breakdown.
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Wonder how canola oil with a small addition of STP would work?
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Probably well, but not as good as the addition of Crane Cams engine oil additive for flat-tappet engines. I don't get why people feel wronged with this whiz-bang snake oil stuff. If nothing else, learning that Canola oil works for a gun lube ought to be worth the price of admission for a bottle of FC.
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Crane Cams additive, eh? Maybe add some to ATF and get something good in an AR?

You just can't stop getting me into the dang parts store, can you?
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Anything oil-ish will keep an AR running fine, no need for special sauce. My humble opinion based on six months of non-combat experience with them and 40 years of my uncle who was an armorer when the M-16 was first adopted and an armorer when he retired. His fave was CLP, no doubt because that's what they had since the early 80s.

I use a heavy, synthetic spray oil mostly because it's easy. I grease the contact points of the works and the buffer spring with synthetic lithium grease. Carbon doesn't stick to my guns, not even the filthy mess that I reported yesterday after shooting some bullets lubed with Javelina.
 
JWFilips

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Man. you guys just know your stuff...I'm so impressed...So honored to be here reading it!
Thank You
Jim
"AKA" the sponge...(absorbing all I can!)
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Crane Cams oil supplement and break-in oil additive contains a lot of organometallic zinc, which is a superb steel-on-steel anti-galling agent and boundary lubricant. It, and several other brands that do the same thing for flat-tappet engines, is what STP USED to do for them before the EPA regs made catalytic converters mandatory. Zinc compounds destroy oxygen sensors and catalytic converter beds, so they have been removed or severely reduced in most "mainstream" whizbang oil treatments that the common Joe will buy in the parts house. "Specialty" and expensive stuff like the flat tappet cam zinc oil additives are really a must in the older engines because of what's been taken out of engine oil, and modern 'roller' engines with fewer sliding surfaces and HO2/three-way catalysts have been engineered to do without zinc. Keeping those zinc-containing chemicals in the racing/hot-rod/antique category keeps the uninitiated from randomly ruining their modern car parts.
 
Pistolero

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Crisco is a solid and canola oil is a liquid, at room temps.
I assume that the effect of hydrogenation gets you Crisco, but is it actually hydrogenated
canola oil?

CLP works fine on 1911s, they will run flawlessly when so cruddy you can't believe it with a
few drops of CLP to "keep it slushy". Not as much experience with ARs but they don't seem
to require heroic amounts of lube. A dab of grease on the bolt rotation pin, a drop on ejector
and good to go, maybe a drop or two on exterior of carrier, but rarely do that one.

Bill
 
L1A1Rocker

L1A1Rocker

Active Member
Ian said:
Crane Cams oil supplement and break-in oil additive contains a lot of organometallic zinc, which is a superb steel-on-steel anti-galling agent and boundary lubricant. It, and several other brands that do the same thing for flat-tappet engines, is what STP USED to do for them before the EPA regs made catalytic converters mandatory. Zinc compounds destroy oxygen sensors and catalytic converter beds, so they have been removed or severely reduced in most "mainstream" whizbang oil treatments that the common Joe will buy in the parts house. "Specialty" and expensive stuff like the flat tappet cam zinc oil additives are really a must in the older engines because of what's been taken out of engine oil, and modern 'roller' engines with fewer sliding surfaces and HO2/three-way catalysts have been engineered to do without zinc. Keeping those zinc-containing chemicals in the racing/hot-rod/antique category keeps the uninitiated from randomly ruining their modern car parts.
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OK, lets take this to a practical conclusion. Say some do it yourselfers wanted to make their own super gun oil, start with Canola oil as a base, and add. . . some additive with zinc in it?
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
A good start for a DIY gun oil is synthetic engine oil like Mobil 1. For range queens that won't get thrown in the dirt on a regular basis, a good synthetic TC-W3 two-cycle premix oil is good, too. Once the solvents evaporate it will leave the heavier (about SAE 30 wt) oil behind along with polybutene which helps it cling to surfaces. For sliding surfaces, synthetic red lithium grease is good. Or, if you don't mind the mess, a synthetic moly/graph grease. I say synthetic for everything because it won't gum up over time or cause problems in moderately cold weather, nor will it fade in hot weather.
 
Rick

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I use Mobil 1 synthetic grease to keep my revolver cylinders properly lubed. The reason being that a lot of different lubes that people use for this dry out over time. Lube the revolver & put it in the safe for who knows how long and when you finally take it out the grease is dried, Mobil 1 synthetic doesn't dry out like that. At least I haven't left one long enough for it to dry. It's also still there when out shooting in Texas type heat.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
I thought I mentioned that to you already, maybe not. It's not common knowledge and we see a lot of engines here at the shop that have been murdered by the latest, greatest API version of engine oil.
 
L1A1Rocker

L1A1Rocker

Active Member
Ian said:
I thought I mentioned that to you already, maybe not. It's not common knowledge and we see a lot of engines here at the shop that have been murdered by the latest, greatest API version of engine oil.
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You may have. I don't trust my memory any more. :)

Do you have a product recommendation? The article mentions that you want both ZDDP AND ZDTP. But what I'm finding advertized only mentions having ZDDP in it.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
We use Comp Cams break in lube. I have some, it's about $15 a bottle and takes one per oil change in a 350 engine.
 
L1A1Rocker

L1A1Rocker

Active Member
You know, I think I'm good on this. Back when Crane built the motors for Dad's Vette and my T/A, he said to run only Valvoline Racing formula with STP engine honey added to it. We'd run straight 40 wt in the winter, and switch to 50 wt in the summer. Looks like the Racing formula stuff already has lots of ZDDP in it.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
That's all to keep sludge down (no coiled-chain multi-grade polymers to shear and break down when using straight-weight oil) and to help the camshaft live (zinc additive in the oil and polybutene in the motor honey to keep the oil clinging to surfaces). HP Chevy camshafts have long been the weakest longevity link in those engines, Mr. Crane probably knew as much or more about that than anyone.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
Brad said:
Wonder how canola oil with a small addition of STP would work?
Click to expand...
Ian said:
A good start for a DIY gun oil is synthetic engine oil like Mobil 1. For range queens that won't get thrown in the dirt on a regular basis, a good synthetic TC-W3 two-cycle premix oil is good, too. Once the solvents evaporate it will leave the heavier (about SAE 30 wt) oil behind along with polybutene which helps it cling to surfaces. For sliding surfaces, synthetic red lithium grease is good. Or, if you don't mind the mess, a synthetic moly/graph grease. I say synthetic for everything because it won't gum up over time or cause problems in moderately cold weather, nor will it fade in hot weather.
Click to expand...

A long time ago, I was told a gunshow secret, a homemade gunoil that makes the bluing POP, doesn't streak or show glossy oil glazing, and most importantly retards fingerprints. It is 70% Mobil 1 and 30% STP. oops, I guess the secrets out ;)
 
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