Is my alloy too hard?

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
I thought i had a good hunting load in my 450 BM. I am running 1100fps with a 450gr bullet cast with 50%WW/50%Soft +1% sn PC and AC. Yesterday i dug a bullet out of the backstop i shoot into that was at 50 Yards. The backstop is a 20 gallon drum laying horizontally filled with sand and a little top soil. The bullet traveled 24" but it never expanded at all.
Will i have to shoot into water jugs or wet newsprint to see if the bullet will expand?
Would it help. If i left the nose free of PC? Or if i went to an even softer alloy say 1/3 WW 2/3 soft
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
At 1100 expansion won’t be easy.
I would try the Bruce B softnose method with a pure lead nose or else find a good alloy that shoots well and ignore expansion.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Pure lead RFN bullets barely expand at 1100 fps. At 50 yards it's going significantly less than 1100 fps.

Remember, we shoot .45 caliber because it doesn't NEED to expand, at all, it already IS expanded compared to .30 caliber. I experimented a good bit with the SOCOM and expanding HP bullets with very limited success. Air cooled soft WW alloy at 9 BHN and a bullet with a huge cup point, powder coated to withstand the launch pressure, barely expanded the mouth to body size in sand. I have up and whacked a pig with solids, believe me it don't matter to the pig if it's HP or not.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Or simply for get the PC stuff, as at 1100 f/s it will do just fine with little, if any, lube. But that is only if you want to kill stuff and are not playing just for fun.
 

Intheshop

Banned
Kevin,my experience has been,the sharper all the edges are.... to even include the base,the more effective terminal ballistics become. Yes velocity is part of the equation, just not quite as much as accuracy and sharp,very clean edges. Good luck with your project.
 

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
Thank you All for minimizing my worries. Yes the Meplat on the bullet is larger than a 30 cal bullet. An i was aware of the ability of a 45 cal. bullet to kill even without expanding. I guess i just needed a little reassurance from those more knowledgeable.
That and i don't want another year. Like 3 years ago. Kevin
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Will i have to shoot into water jugs or wet newsprint to see if the bullet will expand?

Shooting into water will tell you nothing about the bullets performance on game. Water is a very hard medium compared to flesh. The only thing to be learned from such tests is if the bullet will stay together or shatter. At 1,100 fps you have no such concerns. As for your alloy should work fine but if you want to try something different try straight tape on weights with about 1% Sn. Should be about 7-8 BHN.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Been working on softer lately, gc'd in rifle. Conclusion is soft as you can and keep hunting accuracy, terminal performance will be whatever it is. Big hole is nice but a good shot is better. That said, 165 gr @ 950 HARD cast goes south to north in a 150# pig and breaks bones.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
another 100 fps might be of some help.
if the nose is flat I think you got no worries, I would rather have 2 45 cal. holes than 1 30 cal hole and maybe a 40 cal hole at the lower speeds your talking about here.

2 holes and a flat nose pushing tissue out of the way will cause a lot more radial permamnetent [yeah..youknowwhat imean...LOL] and temporary [which becomes permanent in about 30 seconds]internal damage than most realize.
it also pushes it's way through bone or causes secondary fragments if you got some weight flying through the air.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it isn't for external ballistics.
P/C is helpful with feeding from the magazine, and that other part where the bullet leaves the case and again later when it goes past a hole in the barrel.
it really has no effect on terminal bullet effect.
 

Ian

Notorious member
PC'ing big slugs improves accuracy when using extremely soft alloy and smokeless powder. The .450 and .458 are hotrods and at subsonic velocities with fast-burning powder behind them the peak pressure can get pretty high, like 35K or more. Soft alloy does not respond well to getting kicked that hard, but the PC mitigates this a lot.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Are you trying to go faster or slow on purpose ?
I ask as I used some 3rd party Quick Load data H322 for 20,000 psi in a Colts case with a 350 gr bullet in a 16" PCC , 1280 fps with the -10% start load . I suspect a gas gun will be unhappy but a bolt gun , like the lever will push all the way to the muzzle .
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Why not use an arrow?

24" in sand is alot. Water jugs, newsprint, ect can all help give you a reference point once you've also taken some critters with same. I've found it useful to guesstimate performance, just another tool. Sand, snow, crumb rubber are all pretty good at not expanding expanding bullets.

I'd play with some hp designs with the same alloy. I prefer expanding or blow up type bullets for anything man sized or under. Ime they kill the fastest & most reliable. I don't like loosing game just over a fence I cant cross, or sending them off to die slow, suffer, or require second or more shots.

If that's THE bullet have a couple Cavs hp's. Hollow point mold service...

Nothing wrong with what your using in most cases. Personally I would reserve those for larger than man sized game, hard targets, engine blocks, ect.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Try using lead out of bullet jackets. It is around 3% antimony. It will hold together and expand just fine. Pretty much the exact same lead used in factory foster slugs.

When I melt down factory foster slugs I pick up at the range and when I mine for them, I melt them seperate. This is what I use for my muzzleloaders. I shoot them way faster than you are and get no leading and they expand a little. But why when they are 50cal. already.
 

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
I will admit it. I am RECOIL SHY! Off of the bench when i pull the trigger on this load i cringe. I can shoot it accurate enough to hunt with it.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
off the bench I can imagine it does kick.
shoot it standing shot gun style, it won't kick any more than a medium speed 12ga. target load.
 
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Intheshop

Banned
A 4' step ladder is a mighty handy size to have around the house/shop. Get a nice Werner quality fiberglass.

They are perfect for folding a towel on top and using in the standing position for blasting hard kickers. I use mine a LOT! Also use it for friends to shoot off of if,they aren't used to shooting off benches and sorta don't want to be boring them to death going over the intricacies.