is the 9mm gonna be the death of the 40 short?
- Thread starter fiver
- Start date
fiver
Well-Known Member
I had a 38-40 6 shooter for a long time and let my dad swap me out of it.
it was actually impressive in how much it would penetrate at a sedate speed.
I still use that mold in the SIL's 40, it is the only bullet that has ever shot anywhere close to his sights,
factory loads were embarrassing in it.
it's not a tack driver but he can at least hit a 4" steel plate at 20yds with it now.
it was actually impressive in how much it would penetrate at a sedate speed.
I still use that mold in the SIL's 40, it is the only bullet that has ever shot anywhere close to his sights,
factory loads were embarrassing in it.
it's not a tack driver but he can at least hit a 4" steel plate at 20yds with it now.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I doubt the 40's are going to disappear. And I doubt the 9mm is going to be the "Wonder Gun" it was in the 80's/90's. The sole reason the 9mm was so popular in all those early DA bottom feeders was because it was the only cartridge offered in them. Theres a reason the 9mm isn't more popular in the 1911 or why the revolvers made for it don't sell. It's not a "bad" round, in fact it's a lot better than it used to be. But it's never going to be the best round for everyone.
Dusty Bannister
Well-Known Member
So it sounds like you are trying to suggest that the same problem existed with the 44-40 and the 38-40 as the power difference between the 10MM and the 40 S&W, except that in the first place they reduced the diameter and weight. And in the second instance they reduced the Cartridge OAL but retained the diameter and the weight.
Perhaps you are just comparing the ballistics and not the earlier calibers were BP and todays are smokeless? There is usually some caliber that follows a previous caliber, sometimes similar but usually not really the same.
Perhaps you are just comparing the ballistics and not the earlier calibers were BP and todays are smokeless? There is usually some caliber that follows a previous caliber, sometimes similar but usually not really the same.
fiver
Well-Known Member
more an is the between cartridge necessary, and the FBI is looking at going back to the 9mm round again.
they feel it is now a viable round once again with the advancements in bullet technology.
the old 40-38 round was seen as an in betweener in it's day, most felt it wasn't enough for deer and too much for small game so it wasn't a real popular round.
the 41 mag kind of falls in that same place, it is too much for home defense and not seen as enough for much over deer sized game.
kind of a strange place to be.
they feel it is now a viable round once again with the advancements in bullet technology.
the old 40-38 round was seen as an in betweener in it's day, most felt it wasn't enough for deer and too much for small game so it wasn't a real popular round.
the 41 mag kind of falls in that same place, it is too much for home defense and not seen as enough for much over deer sized game.
kind of a strange place to be.
Eutectic
Active Member
How about elk?.......
I love the ol' .38-40! My first 'big' repeater on my 10th birthday. My father hated the .38-40 having the .44-40 in a '92 and a Colt SAA. We had some 'spirited' talks I tell you what! The .22 Hornet was another one which we had vast opinions that differed!
Dad passed before my .38-40 elk........ I would have had a lot of fun with that one!
Pete
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USSR
Finger Lakes Region of NY
Personally, I refuse to put my faith (or life on the line) in regards to a cartridge like the 9mm (and to an even greater extent the .380) in which performance is heavily dependant upon "advancements in bullet technology". Give me a cartridge where the normal bullet weight has a relatively high SD number to ensure good penetration.
Don
Don
fiver
Well-Known Member
well I view some of it like the 375's, they are pretty big for a rifle round.
but shrink the case down to 1.6"s and suddenly they get no air time from the DJ's.
other than the 36 cal navy's back in the day the 37's [or I geuss true 38's] just kind of scruffed off into the darkness.
but shrink the case down to 1.6"s and suddenly they get no air time from the DJ's.
other than the 36 cal navy's back in the day the 37's [or I geuss true 38's] just kind of scruffed off into the darkness.
F
freebullet
Guest
I can't wait till laser guns are the norm...
Ya think folks will have a holier than thou look upon lasers of small caliber if they burn clean through.
Ya think folks will have a holier than thou look upon lasers of small caliber if they burn clean through.
pokute
Active Member
We have some pretty powerful lasers where I work. A powerful IR laser can burn a hole through a computer monitor from several feet with no problem. But the laser is not portable... You'd need a pickup truck to cart it around. Since we're moving toward using a blue laser, we might have a real bargain basement sale in the works for the old laser.
I'm sticking with lead for now.
I'm sticking with lead for now.
alamogunr
Member
I finally got thru all 6 pages of this thread and decided to stick in my penny's worth(it's not worth 2¢). Most of the comments are focused on things that are important to members of this forum and others like it. These are the technical details because most of us don't have real life experience with actual performance. I pay attention when things are written by those who do have this experience. Several recognize that we are all different.
I had a Glock 23 but sold it several years ago because I didn't like to shoot it. I have a Sig 229 that, while I don't enjoy it for recreation, is easier to shoot. I have several 9mm's and a ton of brass. The nearby larger(r) city and county have recently returned to 9mm. I don't know the official reason. Since they practice and qualify at the range I belong to, I have been able to pick up mucho brass. I suspect that .40 S&W will continue to be avaliable because there are a lot of 40 S&W pistols out there. My Sig is relegated to home defense along with several .45 ACP's. I have both 9mm and .45 in the S&W Shield, bought when they had the rebates. These are much better for CC. Neither are ideal for cast.
I had a Glock 23 but sold it several years ago because I didn't like to shoot it. I have a Sig 229 that, while I don't enjoy it for recreation, is easier to shoot. I have several 9mm's and a ton of brass. The nearby larger(r) city and county have recently returned to 9mm. I don't know the official reason. Since they practice and qualify at the range I belong to, I have been able to pick up mucho brass. I suspect that .40 S&W will continue to be avaliable because there are a lot of 40 S&W pistols out there. My Sig is relegated to home defense along with several .45 ACP's. I have both 9mm and .45 in the S&W Shield, bought when they had the rebates. These are much better for CC. Neither are ideal for cast.
Dusty Bannister
Well-Known Member
I did things a little differently than John did. I still have my Glock 23 so have a bucket or two of 40 and a lot of 9MM as well. I decided that I would give the Ruger LC9 a try since I liked a lot of things about it. I sure wish I had a chance to shoot one before I bought it. The trigger pull is just too long for my preference, and the distance from the back strap to the trigger is a bit short for my large hands. I did get one of those rubber band grips that go around the grip and it feels better. I just need to get out and work with it though.
Back to the Glock. I thought I still wanted to get a 9MM so was looking at the after market barrels and decided I wanted to try a Lone Wolf conversion barrel from 40 to 9MM. Then I added a few Glock 19 magazines and swapped out the barrel. I am surprised at how close to the original sights the conversion barrel shoots. Shooting my cast reloads is fun again. The 40 barrel had a lot of "flip" to it, and this seems to be a convenient drop in conversion. Not a whole lot of money involved in the conversion and it will swap back very easy. It is not a bad option for those that might find a LEO trade in in 40 but prefer something a little cheaper to shoot.
Back to the Glock. I thought I still wanted to get a 9MM so was looking at the after market barrels and decided I wanted to try a Lone Wolf conversion barrel from 40 to 9MM. Then I added a few Glock 19 magazines and swapped out the barrel. I am surprised at how close to the original sights the conversion barrel shoots. Shooting my cast reloads is fun again. The 40 barrel had a lot of "flip" to it, and this seems to be a convenient drop in conversion. Not a whole lot of money involved in the conversion and it will swap back very easy. It is not a bad option for those that might find a LEO trade in in 40 but prefer something a little cheaper to shoot.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
It comes down to using what you feel okay with. While a 1911 or full sized Glock are great for uniform carry witha Sam Brown belt, they stink for just sticking in your pocket for a trip to town. There haeven't been pockets that big since Captain Kangaroo came along. If a 22 suits you, fine. If you want a 25, 32, 38/9, 40/10, 44 or 45, go for it. What LE does is often as much the result of bean counters or political whim as any real world need. (For instance, I'm amazed any police agency leaves range brass on the ground. It's worth $$$ ya know!) I doubt any major production caliber is going to go the way of 9mm Federal or 5mm Velo Dog.
Captain Kangaroo? Your age is showing Bret. Yeah, I too remember the Captain. No need for LE to worry about range brass, it's only tax money ya know. At LASC the LAPD practices Tues, Wed, Thurs and I would go out after them with a leaf rake and rake it into piles. Free brass is always a good thing. Life was really good when SWAT was there shooting their Rem 700's with factory Federal 308 match brass and leave it on the ground. For some strange reason though they stopped leaving that brass laying around.
Yeah, I too remember the Captain. No need for LE to worry about range brass, it's only tax money ya know. At LASC the LAPD practices Tues, Wed, Thurs and I would go out after them with a leaf rake and rake it into piles. Free brass is always a good thing. Life was really good when SWAT was there shooting their Rem 700's with factory Federal 308 match brass and leave it on the ground. For some strange reason though they stopped leaving that brass laying around.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Policing the range brass was how we ended every single session. I don't know what they did with the shotgun hulls, but the brass got sent out as scrap. I tried numerous times to get some when we were still shooting 357's, but no way they were giving up any. They even had us collect all the alloy "brass" when were were shooting the 9's. I think it was CCI Blazer (maybe?) at the time. Since it was NYS, I can only imagine there was either some bean counter in Albany that saw to it we got half of whatever scrap brass was worth or there was a well connected political donor getting all the free brass he wanted...