Keep em' or back in the pot ? ?

[Ben]

Shooting plain base .30 cal. cast bullets.


I do not weigh .30 cal. cast plain base bullets . However, I am a " stickler " for a completely filled out and sharp cornered bullet base. I believe the bullet base is critical to any hopes of success with the .30 cal. plain based bullet . If the base of a bullet is even slightly rounded on the edges,has ANY irregularity on it or does not have a clean, crisp, smooth, sprue cut, it is rejected and remelted. If there are ANY visual defects anywhere on the bullet , that bullet is also rejected. The drive bands should be crisp and sharp. Any rounded bands on a bullet cause it to be a " reject ".

All my casting is done with a ladle. Over 95% of all .30 cal. plain based bullet testing has been done with air cooled wheel weights. I use Ben's Red or 50% B'Wax / 50% Moly bullet lube . I also take the sized and lubed bullets and roll them in a thinned coat of BLL and set them aside to dry.

So far all my testing has been with powders FASTER than 2400 with plain based bullets ( a large majority with B'Eye, Red Dot, Unique and American Select ) . Gas checked bullets have shot well with slower powders like IMR - 4895 and SR - 4759

I'm not saying that powders slower than 2400 couldn't produce accurate loads with .30 cal. plain based bullets, but that is not where I've focused my efforts.
In my many .30 cal. rifles, I've never had a plain base bullet shoot well sized .308" or .309".

Few plain base bullets have shot well at .310", 95% + of my good groups with .30 cal. plain based bullets have always been sized .311" or .3115".

Please share your experiences below.......................

Ben

 

[Bill]

Same here Ben, I started with .311 in my old worn out milsurps then as a matter of convenience tried them in my commercial rifles 30-30, 308, and 30-06. Not always better but never worse

Bill

 

[Ben]

I've shot many nice groups with gas checked cast bullets at .309 and .310 diameter. However , with plain base, the magic number seems to be .311.
My " goal " with velocity with a plain base .30 cal. cast bullet is always in the 1, 050 fps - 1,350 fps range.

Ben

 

[Brad]

With plain base bullets in 30 cal a charge of powders even as slow as 2400 is going to problematic.
Those powders require pressures, and therefore charges, to burn properly that will cause problems.
I love 2400 with cast bullets but think it is best in the 1400-1800 FPS window, way more than a plain base 30 will like.

Being extremely picky about bullets makes a lot of sense. One other benefit is that it lets you easily know if the mould you are using has special needs to give good fill out.

 

[Ben]

Thanks Brad,

Ben

 

[Brad]

When you decide to get really picky it certainly makes you reevaluate your casting process and procedure. Figuring out how little details make a difference will ultimately help all of your casting better.

I had to relearn to cast when I went to the ladle. In the end it made my overall bullet quality far better.

 

[Ben]

I'm in no position to have anything bad to say about bottom pour casting.

However, I've been using a ladle since 1967 and I know that " I'm set in my ways ".

 

[Cherokee]

Fast powders for PB bullets. I cull the poor ones, focused on the base. Works for me.

 

[Creeker]

Like Ben I focus on the appearance especially the bases.

 

[Tomme boy]

2400 needs a near max charge to burn right. I have got a 75fps spread with no filler. But with dacron to hold the powder I can get the ES down to 15fps or better depending on how much sorting and brass prep I feel like doing.

 

[Spindrift]

I have observed that PB bullets really need a good flare, and low neck tension (I use 0,001in). GC bullets are (unsurprisingly) a bit more forgiving. I only use powders faster than 2400. Hodgdon Universal, Vectan powders Ba9 and prima V, vihta N32c. I have recently aquired a new powder, Vectan A0. This is a single base, flake powder with a burning speed similar to Herco. Haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet.

 

[Winelover]

I'm probably too picky when I cull my bullets. But casting is an enjoyable hobby, so no great loss, if they are returned to the melt.

 

[4060MAY]

Ben
I shoot a lot of plain base bullets, but mostly breech seated, never sized used as cast
for my 30-40Krag Ruger no.3, I use a Barry Darr designed bullet from Saeco, fired case, de-cap, prime, powder charge, slide bulet into fired neck, use a LEE factory crimp die to just hold the bullet in the case, or use an old Lyman set of nutcracker handles with a 30-40 seater die, to just bump the end, holding the bullet in the case,I do this when not breech seating them...powder charge, my favorite powder is ball powder, WC680, WC820, AA#9, Enforcer, Aliant 300MP, or SR4759, if you have any, most of the Breech Seat guys use IMR 4227, I never had any luck with it, most of my shooting is at 100/200yds

 

[Ben]

Sounds interesting.

Ben

 

[L Ross]

I have read on the CBA where some fellas feel that minor defects in their cast bullets do not have a meaningful effect on accuracy. Could be, but I hate imperfections. Whether I am casting bullets, making fishing lures, or mowing the darned lawn, I hate slovenly work. Yeah I know, diagnosable, right?
I shoot some plain base bullets in rifles. The RCBS 30-150-CM and the 25-85-CM in particular. I like 4227 a lot. I also had a decent 50 yard load for a postal ground hog match with Trail Boss in the 30-06 with the 30-150-CM.
Perfect looking bullets inspire confidence. Perfect looking, weight sorted bullets put the onus on me.
I think I need to go knock down some chickens.

 

[Ben]

If it is worth doing , it is worth doing RIGHT.
I'm in full agreement.

Ben

 

[dale2242]

Like you, Ben, ANY visual defect goes back in the pot.
I do weigh all my rifle bullets.
Handgun bullets only have to be visually perfect..dale

 

[JWFilips]

Well Since Ben is who got me into "Low and Slow" I have to agree with him for the most part! When I was using Ben's red and BLL all my 30 cal PB bullets were sized .3115" ( the .0005's is because that is what honed out Lee push through die sized at) They were always accurate in my Marlin 336 30-30 and my Savage 340 30-30.
The only change now is I use PC coating. This lets me size .310" and still be accurate however I also have used PC bullets sized .3115" and they are accurate as well......some day I'm going to have a shoot off test between the 2 different sizes with PC coating. The only other thing I have discovered using PC is that Gas Check style bullets coated in PC with out gas checks seem to shoot a tad more accurate then the plain base equivalent.
This never happened when I was using Traditional lube ....the Plain base was always more accurate! Not sure why PC would reverse this?

And as for crisp shape bands and bases I'm with Ben Anything that doesn't pass..... goes back in the pot
Jim

 

[USSR]

Agree with Ben, the base gets the first look. After that, the driving bands. If there is just a little bit of rounding with the driving band(s), I find they get squared up when the bullet is sized.

Don

 

[Bill]

Throw them back in, lead is hard enough to find with out throwing it away down range, if your going to do that you might as well lite a string of firecrackers

Bill