Lee Carbide FCD or just use a FL size die ?

[JonB]

I haven't started a casting or bullet related thread in a while, so here goes.

I have about 700 rds of 45 acp cast bullet ammo, that will not work in my two 45s, they both are just too finicky.
Last March, I've offered the ammo to a friend for free, as plinking ammo for a gun I sold him years ago (Baby Eagle).
I am 99% sure they will cycle and fire safely in that gun.
He still hasn't stopped over to pick them up, I correspond with him infrequently via email.
within the last week, had a email conversation. He mentioned selling the Baby Eagle, I then reminded him
of the 45 ammo I wanted to give him....he had totally forgot, and didn't even remember that I offered it,
and he wondered why I was giving it to him. I tried to explain in a email, but honestly, I get the impression he doesn't want it.

I originally planned to pull all the bullets, but thought the work to do it, wasn't worth it, so I was gonna just trash 'em, the timing
of those plans, just happened to coincide with one of our infrequent email conversions.
Recently, since he doesn't seem interested, I had a thought, Why not size the loaded round down enough to 'squeeze' the cast bullet smaller,
and they either drop out of the case or pull much easier (inertia puller).

Should I use a Lee Carbide FCD or use a carbide FL size die ?
=========================================

I know I will get the following question...why don't they work?
so here is the answers, to satisfy those who are gonna ask.

Half of this ammo is loaded with 452374 that were cast and PC'd by someone else.
I loaded them right away, but now they have grown in Dia during the years they have been sitting around on the shelf.
They won't reliably chamber in either my Ruger American or my 625.
(I recall the Baby Eagle having a large-ish chamber)

The other half is loaded with a 200 gr. SWC (Lee GB).
The Ruger will not cycle that bullet...100% fail to feed from the Mag.
I've read comments about other Ruger American owners report the same...has to do with ammo angle in the Mag.
Also, the Brass used in that batch, isn't friendly with moon clips.
Mooning and demooning is extremely difficult, so I don't want to use it in the 625.

One last comment, the funny thing is, I have soo much 45 brass, I don't even care about recovering the brass, especially the moon clip unfriendly brass.
It's mostly about getting the Lead back into ingots...and maybe the powder and primers?

Any thoughts? maybe something simple I have completely over looked?
thanks in advance.

 

[fiver]

you don't need moon clips in the revolver.
they just make it sort of convenient to unload the gun.

one other thing you could try is running them in a taper crimp die until they do chamber.
that's how I get the oversized 357 powder coated bullets I use to fit my chambers.

 

[Ian]

Run them through the Lee FCD to make minimum specs and shoot them one at a time. If nothing else it will be good for your mag change muscle memory. Or do the same thing and make sure the FCD is still putting some crimp on them and run them through your 625 and eject with a pencil. [edit to add] yes, what Fiver already said.

 

[RBHarter]

Make or grab the pusher anvil for your .450-480 Lee sizer , gut your FCD and push them through it like a bulge buster only fatter . I had a bunch that wouldn't load in the 45s I shoot . I was surprised by how many had just a slight bump just below where the sizer stopped . They all fit after that unless the bullet was too fat .

 

[KHornet]

As usual agree with Ian!

Paul

 

[popper]

Just run through a case sizer die and pop them out (decapper removed). Soft alloy releases pretty easy. My rcbs for 40SW isn't carbide and it does the job fine. Often with full case of powder just seating deeper will break the bond and make it easier.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

I have a problem chamber/barrel in 357 mag contender that needs only one brand of brass or the cartridge is too large to chamber easily with a cast bullet sized at .3585". I used a steel full length sizer adjusted to just reduce the end of the case enough to allow easy chambering. I suspect the carbide full length sizer might be too much sizing but you could try it on a few and see if they shoot and do not lead. Just size as much as is necessary to allow chambering of those fat coated bullets.

Half moon clips are a little more forgiving than the full moon clips.

 

[JonB]

Thanks everyone.
today, the weather seems adequate, 30s and sunny.
I think I'll start with a visit to the range today, with the 625...and shoot some from each batch of this ammo without moon clips.
I always thought the moon clips were required for proper headspace.
If this works out, I'll have to make a 6-way hand ejector to burn up all the ammo.

 

[Ian]

I always thought the moon clips were required for proper headspace.

My 1917 doesn't need the moon clips, the chambers are cut with a step for headspacing on the case mouths just like the automatics. The moon clips are only a loading/ejection expedient.

 

[KeithB]

Pushing out the empties from a DA when not using moon clips is still no slower than pushing them out of a SAA. I do like using AR brass in my 625.

 

[JonB]

I had a real good visit at the gun range yesterday.
The 625JM (that I previously hated) performed well enough, that I think I now like it, and will discontinue trying to sell it.
I even seemed to like the JM grips, that I thought I disliked...I still have the rubber pachmayrs, which I also like.
Of the 150+ rds that I shot, I did have about 5 or so fail to fire (light primer strike).... I can live with that, until I burn up these 700 rds that I originally planned to throw-away or give-away.

Regarding the oversize PC'd 452374 bullets, A few entered the cylinder chamber with some difficulty...BUT...if I tried that difficult round in another chamber, it would go in easily. I didn't investigate that further, but I will...because I am wondering if one chamber is smaller or has a burr or flaw?
Also, I did notice some lead fouling from the PC'd 452374 bullets, I suspect some got scratched up during loading? But I saved some of the SWC ammo (lubed with SL68B) to shoot at the end of the shooting session. That seemed to clean out the lead fouling, according to my eyes, but I haven't run a cleaning rod through it yet.

Some photos for your enjoyment.


shown is one example of a fat PC'd round sticking out of the
cylinder, because it wouldn't fully chamber.



First target, shooting offhand at about 20 yds. (1.5" bull)


Larger view, railroad tie target backer.


A few recovered bullets.

 

[fiver]

I get the occasional FTF when I don't use the clips too,,, if I am firing double action.
if I roll it through and hit it single action it goes off.

 

[Ian]

Jon, you could have a few dirty or lead-fouled chambers.

The only light primer strikes I have ever experienced in any gun have happened to my DA Smiffs. Every one of six or seven of them at some time or other. Hand-seating and using only Federal primers, together with replacing and properly tensioning the hammer springs and shimming end shake to the minimum, has cured it. My Victory Model 10 flat wouldn't fire anything. The hammer nose would barely protrude through the frame, so I got another hammer nose and installed it not knowing the history of the revolver (same problem after installing the new one), turns out the frame wasn't machined properly and the hammer wouldn't fall forward far enough, but a little work with a Dremel burr cured it.

 

[462]

Ian, odd that your Victory Model went through its service life without that severe of a problem being experienced, diagnosed and corrected. Could it be it was never issued?

 

[Walks]

The Moon clips are only needed for the 1st 50,000 Colt M1917's, they were bored straight through. My Dad had one, always used Auto Rim Brass. And used the #454424 cast of Linotype, and Lubed in a .457 die. I've got half Moon Clips, full Moon Clips and 1/3 Moon Clips. The 1/3 allow you to store your "clipped" ammo in a std 50 or 100 rd box. More trouble then they are worth.
Had a M625-1989 for a lot of years. Full moon Clips are practical for a fast reload, but other then that I prefer Auto Rim Brass. Have a load just for My M1917/1937. I load all My Auto Rim Brass with a N.O.E. version of the #452423 sized .454 over a light charge of Bullseye. Three inches high at 25yrds, allows me a 6 O'clock hold at 25yrds.

Back in the Olden Days, before Tungsten Carbide Size Dies, and Taper Crimp. My Dad used an old Lachmiller .45ACP Steel Size Die as a Taper Crimp for .45ACP. He adjusted the die to just "kiss" the mouth of the case. Used a .380 Sizer for 9mmLuger the same way.

 

[Outpost75]

Correction re the early M1917 Colt .45 ACPs. Contrary to popular folkslore, the chambers of the early cylinders were not bored "straight through."
They are of the same internal configuration and diameters as .455 Eley cylinders produced for the 1914 British order. They differ only in the length of the cylinder where the rear was faced off to provide clearance for the half moon clip. I have a 1914 .455 Eley and an early M1917 .45 ACP. Both guns have the exact same chamber diameters with a .480" diameter chamber body and a 6 degrees Basic transition from the case mouth to the .456" diameter cylinder throats. After the leftover .455 cylinders from the British order were used up, purpose-built .45 ACP cylinders were made for the remainder of the US Army order, these having the correct right-angle mouth shoulder to properly headspace .45 ACP rounds without requiring the clip.

 

[Walks]

I cleaned that old Colt more times then I could count. There Was No Shoulder In That Cylinder. I don't remember the dimensions, but Dad said they were the same at the face as they were at the rear. Guess I really know why now.

 

[Outpost75]

I cleaned that old Colt more times then I could count. There Was No Shoulder In That Cylinder. I don't remember the dimensions, but Dad said they were the same at the face as they were at the rear. Guess I really know why now.

Well here are photo of the cylinder interior on my M1917. It has an angled transition from the .480 to the .456 diameter, which is insufficient to headspace the cases, which fall flush into the cylinder.

 

[fiver]

is that a domed primer, or are the shadows just making me see it that way?

 

[creosote]

I had to go look through my old stuff for domed primers.
The newest I got is from the forties.
All my sixties stuff is eather de-primed, or ready for the range. Did find some "PETERS", but no date stamp