lee economy.

[fiver]

i was gonna start a new thread on the real economy of LEE molds, then i seen CW's new mold thread and debated whether to contribute to his thread or start one.
i decided to start one since this is some different.

anyway:
since forever i have used mehanite molds, then 1-2 aluminum molds come along since it was take it or forget getting the design.
there have been some outstanding molds and some dammit how many more times i gotta do this till i get it's along the way... LOL

then i got to thinking about the 20 dollar LEE molds.
i have really liked some of their designs over the years, but was generally in need of equipment i knew could knock out 5-600 lbs. of alloy before even being looked at for any type of wear.

i don't need that now
500 bullets is back to being enough for the next year or so, at least for that bullet anyway.

so i got thinking about what it always comes down to for me.. dollars, and dollar economy.
when does a 20 dollar mold no longer owe me anything.
the answer?
about 20 lbs of alloy in and i'm actually making money.
okay.. well, not spending more money..... you know, except on more alloy and gas checks and primers ,,, and powder when i can find it.

back to the question,,, seriously now stop laughing.

if i get 100 lbs. of alloy through a 20 dollar mold i'm looking at @4-K bullets.
buying them [if i could get them] would cost 4 to 500 dollars.
the mold, alloy, propane, electricity, lube,,, and gas checks [which would really up the cost on store bought as well as mine]
so i'll leave those off for now.
75 bucks max, all in, for what i got on hand here.

yep.
i know, mehanite are only a hundred bucks or 175, i got plenty of them, and i got Tom's molds, and a brass MP or two.
but i can buy a whole fleet of 20-25 dollar molds and burn them down, or get bent and trash one and replace it.
i'm okay with that at this point.

 

[waco]

I just don't like most Lee molds. I most always have poor results with them. I'll give my money to Tom.

 

[Spindrift]

I have plenty of Lee 2-cavity moulds, all of them with the proper alignment pins. These were the molds (and general Lee casting gear) that got me into this hobby in the first place. My first mould was a c309-180, that has made many thousands of bullets, and still work. Before buying my first casting equipment, i calculated my investments (pot, moulds, everything) would be covered after about 1000 bullets.

I like these moulds. They are easy on the wrist, they are always ready since the handle is always mounted. They heat up to casting temp quickly. And there are some excellent bullet designs available. My favourites:

c225- 55
CTL 312-160
358-158 RF
c358-200
c430-300

 

[Joshua]

I wish Lee made ALL of their molds in 6 cavity form. Well actually I wish that they made ALL the molds I want to buy in six cavities!

It seems to me that mold durability is a measure of how many times you can open and close a mold and still drop a serviceable bullet. At $45 per mold Lee six cavity molds are an even better economy than $25 two cavity molds. That’s $7.50 per cavity vs $12.50 per cavity. And, that $7.50 cavity is only worked a third as hard. So the six cavity mold is cheaper per cavity, and will yield many more bullets in it’s lifetime before it wears out. That’s a good deal.

 

[Bret4207]

I prefer Lee's 6 cavity moulds, they just seem to be better made. That being said, I have some 2 cav's that have made a big ol' mess of bullets and still work fine. They aren't pretty, they aren't magic, but they work.

 

[Winelover]

Cut my casting teeth on RCBS iron molds, back when they could be had new for less than $40...........about twice as much as Lee's. IMO, the RCBS was more economical. No Lee-menting required and if taken care of will last many lifetimes. Iron holds heat better than aluminum, making casting much easier for the beginner and usually with better results. Never much fretted with the number of cavities. One can cast, alternating, with two molds at the same time. My preferred method with two cavity molds, anyways.

I own exactly one Lee mold and it's a conical specifically designed for my ROA. Custom mold makers, we use today, weren't available, at the time. I cast up a lifetime supply and never used it again. As much as I shoot it, it was more economical to purchase round balls from Speer or Hornady.

I went the full circuit with mold materials from our custom makers.....iron, brass and aluminum. Aluminum being the lightest but still my least favorite. Brass is nice but gets too heavy, too fast. You also must be careful with tinning and the subsequent removal of, without marring the mold. Iron will always be my favorite. Holds heat, lighter than brass and easier to remove any lead deposits with a mild abrasive like 0000 steel wool.........a no no with brass or aluminum.

I value my time, so iron molds are more economical for me.

 

[Rick H]

To be honest I wish Lee made a 4 cavity mold of similar quality to the 6 cavity. The 6 cavity is just awkward and the 2 cavity too slow. I have a couple of Al's 4 cavity aluminum moulds and that is about perfect for me.

 

[L Ross]

I just don't like most Lee molds. I most always have poor results with them. I'll give my money to Tom.

But what about the 312-155-2R? I have extolled its virtues here enough times to be called a fan boy. For me it shoots right with the 30xcb and if I need another one I can probably find one fairly quickly, but I already have two 2 cavities, and one 6. I think the neighbor kid has one of the two cavities and one of my RCBS pots.

 

[Glaciers]

I’m with Rick H, a 4 cavity LEE would be ideal in certain designs. I have quite a few LEE 6 cavities molds and a few 2 cavity. The 2 cavity 459-500 is great design, but it would be to much for a 6 cavity, double dipping to fill if they made that in a 6. But a 4 would be nice with the heavier spur plate. The 2 cavity plate is really light and takes a little care.
This last fall after selling a lot of extra reloading components including a few molds I wanted to up grade, I picked up 6 - 6 cavity LEE’s, but only did some test casting by the time I became a snowbird.
I like the LEE 6 cavity molds. Lot of bang for your dollar.
While I like the 6 cavity I agree with Fiver on the value of the 2 cavity, LEE, $20, what’s not to like. I bought some 2 cavity LEE’s, liked the design, sold them when the 6’s became available.
I have a NOE 300 grain 45 caliber 5 cavity that casts beautiful slugs but if I’m not careful with the ladle I don’t get 5 filled out. I do have Bigger ladle but I need to shorten the handle to use with more control.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

To be honest I wish Lee made a 4 cavity mold of similar quality to the 6 cavity. The 6 cavity is just awkward and the 2 cavity too slow. I have a couple of Al's 4 cavity aluminum moulds and that is about perfect for me.

I have often thought exactly same.

Those old lee 2 cav with bar pins was kinda well rough. The pins now are improvement but the cheap integrated handles dont help things.

But as I say in my thread, last four 6 cav have been much improved over previous. No real diff in looks but obvious improvement in overall quality.

CW

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Lee equipment gets unmitigated grief. Not all that criticism is warranted. There are situations when one needs to maintain perspective.

I tend to seek out high quality tools, but I would be lying if I said I didn’t own some $0.99 screwdrivers. There is a time and place to spend money and there are times and places to conserve money.

I started casting round balls for cap & ball revolvers long before I was casting for metallic cartridge reloading. Those round ball molds are Lee molds and they continue to serve me well. I have some Lee molds for conventional bullets as well. The key (at least for me) is to decide where to spend money and where to conserve money.

A bullet mold is a “once in a lifetime” purchase. However, that lifetime may be 1000 bullets, or it may be 50,000 bullets. Spend your money accordingly.

I have far more iron molds that aluminum ones but that doesn’t mean the aluminum molds can’t produce high quality bullets.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Good point.

Most reloading equipment is a lifetime (many) purchase. Most of us are willing to pay a lil more because of this.
But LEE is better viewed as a consumable. Largely cost reflects that.

Once I was very negative about LEE. But once I wrapped my head around its short life span and costs reflect that. I was better with there use and purchase.
Some things they make like scales and powder measurers will never grace my benches. They offer many things I must have. Like scoops, trimmers, bulge buster etc.

CW

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Years ago, I purchased a used Jeep some distance from home. I had to put license plates on it to get it home. The dealer had the tags but no hardware. I stopped at an auto parts store about a block from the dealer and purchased the hardware needed to mount the tags and the cheapest screwdriver they had. I spent more money on the hardware than the screwdriver. It was a handy tool but not good quality. I didn’t care if it was stolen or lost, it had already served its purpose. That cheap screwdriver rode in the console of that Jeep until I sold the Jeep.

There is a time and place to spend money and that wasn’t one of those times.

 

[Jeff H]

I've been a proponent for LEE since the early eighties, after I'd left home and had to buy my own stuff. Because of LEE, I was actually able to cast and reload, because the price made it affordable. After a short while, I realized that not only was LEE equipment AS good as others I grew up with, they were BETTER in certain ways. In recent years, I don't try too hard to sell LEE over other brands because of attitude. They are not as polite and helpful as they once were and can be downright snotty at times.

I'm not "for" or "against" LEE moulds, but they get no more slack than any other, regardless of the price. If it's a good one, I'll acknowledge that. If it's a bad one, I'll not just give them the benefit of the doubt - I'm bringing it up. A 50% success rate (on 2Cs) is pretty poor overall, but I HAVE had about as many good ones.

I like several of LEE's bullet designs. My experience with their moulds has been mixed. A $20 LEE mould, over time has usually ended up costing me $40, because I have had at least one stinker to every good one - in 2C form. The biggest problem has been under-sized cavities. Ive not bough a LEE 2C in a long time, so maybe it's better.

The good ones I've had lasted a long time. The last two I finally scrapped had been worked over numerous times to keep them casting and I got thousands and thousands of bullets from them. 6Cs have generally been better, but clumsy, with the long spue plate and gangly handle, swingin' around. It's also in the way when I try to grip the mould handles. I would vote for LEE 4Cs and probably replace my 6Cs with them quickly. I have NOE and Arsenal moulds in aluminum, and purposely bought them as 4C because they are so much more convenient to handle.

I have a bunch of iron moulds in 1C and 2C, but don't use many of them much any more.

SOME of LEE's anomalies are gems. I friend has an old 6C 429-200 RF that casts .432", which has been very useful for a number of 44 Specials over the years. He has a 6C, and I a 2C C309-113 RF which sat .13", which has been very useful in a number of 32s over the years. Each of these is a contradiction to the freuent under-sizing I've experienced, but a welcome contradiction.

Now, LEE says their under-sized moulds are not under-sized; their 429-XXX will cast a perfect .429" bullet in pure linotype, and they have doen just that and returned the bullets with the mould to prove it. I don't know about anyone else, but of the many different 44s I've owned over the years, not one of them EVER work with a .429" cast bullet.

 

[Ian]

I have dozens of fine custom moulds and dozens more good iron classics. The ones I use the most for my "pet" loads are made by Lee, it just works out that way. If the C312-155 was ever made in a .309 commercial version, I'd buy two or three of them and load every .30-caliber cartridge I own with them.

 

[oscarflytyer]

When I started casting, got a couple Lees to get things going (as I had so many diff calibers. And I got some good ones! Didn't understand why nobody recommended them. As I have progressed in casting, I have goten some bummers, and also understand some's disdain for them. But I still have a cpl go to's.

 

[Winelover]

I don't know about anyone else, but of the many different 44s I've owned over the years, not one of them EVER work with a .429" cast bullet.

Cast the RCBS 240 SWC (gas checked version) for many years for my RH. Sized to .429 per RCBS's catalog. I'm still using what's left of a five gallon bucket. Throats on my RH are a .433 slip fit, as is my Bulldog. Recent S&W acquisition has .430 slip fit throats. Mild to wild, this bullet does not lead any of the three 44's. None suffer from accuracy at reasonable the handgun ranges..............60 yards for the scoped RH, other two are for up close and personal.

Don't know or care what the barrels slug out at. In fact, I've never slugged a barrel. I shoot strictly, cast in all of my pistols and carbines. What I do know is that by using a gas check, one can disprove about some of the strict/rigid beliefs of shooting cast bullets. I'll let my guns do the talking, down range on paper, and again when I'm cleaning them. Been doing this longer than some of you are old.

 

[L Ross]

Cast the RCBS 240 SWC (gas checked version) for many years for my RH. Sized to .429 per RCBS's catalog. I'm still using what's left of a five gallon bucket. Throats on my RH are a .433 slip fit, as is my Bulldog. Recent S&W acquisition has .430 slip fit throats. Mild to wild, this bullet does not lead any of the three 44's. None suffer from accuracy at reasonable the handgun ranges..............60 yards for the scoped RH, other two are for up close and personal.

Don't know or care what the barrels slug out at. In fact, I've never slugged a barrel. I shoot strictly, cast in all of my pistols and carbines. What I do know is that by using a gas check, one can disprove about some of the strict/rigid beliefs of shooting cast bullets. I'll let my guns do the talking, down range on paper, and again when I'm cleaning them. Been doing this longer than some of you are old.

I absolutely believe that. When I started casting for a Super Blackhawk in 1974 or 75 the only mould I could get in .44 was a Lyman 429215 single cavity, I was happy to get it. The old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook my Dad gave me said to size to .429". I got a 450 and the correct H&I dies and sized and checked those 215's and lubed them with the black Lyman sticks. Worked great, no leading, shot that thing out to 240 yards because thats where the berm was at the rifle range and 5 gallon buckets were in serious trouble from the bench. Gas checks might just be the reason that worked so well. I shot two loads, 22.0 gr. of 2400 and 6.2 grains of 700x. Lots of them. You actually can shoot a SBH loose, it just took thousands of rounds and three owners to do it. When I got it back it rattled like an old gate hinge. Ruger shieked all back better than new for 175 bucks.

 

[Missionary]

Would it really be to hard to cut off the last two cavities of a Lee 6 cavity and reshape the plate ?

 

[Winelover]

Yep, 22 grains of 2400 lit by a magnum primer, under a 240 SWC was the load, back then. Took my first handgun deer with that load. Bullet cut two one inch saplings in half before it hitting the deer.........which I thought I missed, until I seen a tuft of hair on the ground. Found the dead deer 65 yards later.