Lee TL 452 230 TC

[JonB]

I've been meaning to load a batch of 45acp for a Ruger American (pistol) I bought last fall. I found this Lee 2 cav mold on the mold pile, LOL. I had forgot I even had this mold? When I seen it, I remembered it didn't work well in my Baby Eagle with polygonal barrel, I hadn't cast with for a long time, I thought, maybe it'll work in my new Ruger?

These were cast with a soft range scrap (9-10 BHn). They dropped at .4535 and 244gr. I'm thinking after I size them to .452 and TL, I'll load 'em with a published starting charge of Unique...maybe?

 

[Ben]

A fine bullet !

 

[Wasalmonslayer]

I shoot that bullet a lot.
I use either 5.2 grns of unique or 5 grns of hp38.
Either shoots just dandy.
My 1911 and Springfield xdm shoot them equally well.
I put a crimp of .470 on the case and that has been my universal set up for 45 acp for quite a while.

 

[Ian]

I ran about 6,000 of those last year, powder coated and loaded up for .45 ACP stockpile. Still need to cast about 5-6K more. I chose that bullet above all the other excellent to decent .45 ACP moulds I have because it shoots well in EVERY gun in my small but vastly diverse .45 ACP fleet.

 

[KHornet]

Shoots very well also in my 45 Long Colt New Vaquero.

Paul

 

[Ian]

Jon, I load mine at 1.208" length over-all, because that's what one of my pistols requires. It bears mentioning to anyone reading about loading this bullet that the seating depth that may be required to pass the plunk test may raise pressure, as you say start low and work up if you have to seat them that deeply. Most 230-grain data has an LOA in the 1.250-265" range and the difference that little bit of seating depth makes regarding pressure is quite dramatic.

 

[JonB]

Jon, I load mine at 1.208" length over-all, because that's what one of my pistols requires. It bears mentioning to anyone reading about loading this bullet that the seating depth that may be required to pass the plunk test may raise pressure, as you say start low and work up if you have to seat them that deeply. Most 230-grain data has an LOA in the 1.250-265" range and the difference that little bit of seating depth makes regarding pressure is quite dramatic.

Thanks for the heads up, as that is exactly what I was doing this afternoon, setting up the 3 hole turret press and checking some dummy rounds. The Lyman CBHB#4 lists this lee bullet (Unique starting charge is 5.2gr) and specs a OAL=1.170". When I cycled four dummy rounds that length, one was sticky on ejection, then on closer inspection I could see a ring of scraped lead right at the edge of the case mouth on all four dummys. So I made four more dummys at 1.150 and those cycled much better, I ran them through the gun many times.

 

[Ian]

1.150"?

 

[JonB]

yep, 1.150"

 

[Ian]

According to QuickLoad, going from 1.250 to 1.150 bumps the pressure from 11K to 17K with 5.0 grains of Unique and a 245-grain Lee TCTL bullet, BELOW a starting load by most data. 5.5 grains, in the vicinity of many 230gr cast published starting loads, puts you at 22K, which of course is over maximum. If you take Lyman data for the RN 230 and their seating depth, maximum charge is 6.4 grains which at your seating depth is predicted at over 31,000 PSI.

What I'm saying is a published STARTING charge might very well be over the maximum allowable pressure at your current LOA, so please be careful.

I personally wouldn't start at anything over five grains and would work up cautiously from there only if that load reacts like it needs more powder.

 

[JonB]

Thanks again for the info. I will start lower than 'starting' load.

Yesterday, I just slapped together the dummy rounds, and gave them a quick cycle in the fully assembled gun, figuring it's a simple/casual routine to just confirm what I think will work. Since the Lyman CBHB#4 listed 1.170 and I found my gun preferred 1.150 ...I figured .020 no biggie. After reading your recent more thorough warning, I figured I better dig into this pistol a little more carefully. So I guess this type of thing should never be taken as a simple/casual routine?

I removed the barrel, cleaned it, inspected it and did some plunk tests with various length dummys, and it's clear the begining of the throat will not accept any full sized portion of a bullet (sized to .452). You can easily see the ridge of the throat, it's a heck of a ridge. So I have to seat this particular bullet deep enough, so all the 'sized' portion of the bullet is in the case. Some freshly assembled dummys that were 1.170 when plunked into the chamber, stuck up .010 to .015 ...Obviously 1.150 plunked great each time.

So either I have to live with a 1.150 COAL for this bullet with this pistol, or have the throat chamfered...the beginnings of the rifling are nicely chamfered and NOT abrupt like some I've seen that would need chamfering for that reason alone. I'll load some with about 4 gr of Unique (about means, whatever powder-disk measurement is close) in the near future and then wait for the latest 8+" of snow we got 2 days ago, to melt...with low temps at about zero, it may be a couple weeks.

 

[Ian]

I'd most definitely 100% ream the geezus out of it. And size .4515". If you don't it's probably always going to lead. I'd be happy to loan you my Manson throating reamer but it kinda got ruined trying to to ream a mellonized barrel. If you send me flat-rate envelope postage and feel like trying to un-roll the edges and sharpen it again (tedious but doable) you can have it.

 

[JonB]

Thanks for the offer.
I gotta shoot some of these first.
if I decide to have it reamed, I'll probably find someone like Dougguy to do it.
while I am mechanically minded, fixing/sharpening tooling isn't in my wheelhouse.
Thanks again.

 

[Brad]

What? Someone tried to ream a Mellanite barrel with your standard reamer? Did you kill him?

Wouldn't have been you, would it?

 

[Ian]

Naw......

 

[Brad]

I paid Doug a little extra because I wasn't sure if my CZ barrel was hardened or not. Turns out it wasn't but we decided that was the safer bet. He has a carbide reamer for those barrels.

Expensive lesson, isn't it Ian?

 

[Ian]

I've been told you can't buy experience, but you'll sure pay for it. Perfect example.

I worked that reamer back to halfway-decent and tried it on another barrel (Taurus Thunderbolt project which cut like butter with a chamber reamer and HSS threading tool) and it didn't work very well for that, either. I ended up making a lap from a bolt and finishing both of the throats with that.

 

[Brad]

And experience often is very expensive!
Some lessons just have to be learned the hard way. Those are the ones that really stick with us over time.

 

[JonB]

I got out to the range last Thursday...and spread out a tarp to catch the brass (I forgot the chrono, but it was pretty cold and cloudy).
I shot 40 rounds loaded with different amounts of Unique and the short COAL 1.150
4.0gr
4.3gr
4.7gr
5.1gr

The two lower charges had a few jams/FTE, due to low pressure I suspect? and dirty/sooty cases, unburnt powder and such.
Also, he two lower loads, brass was thrown a few inches from my boots.

The two higher charges, burned cleaner, and the groups tightened.
>The 4.7gr load, brass was thrown 5'
>The 5.1gr load, brass was thrown 10'

No pressure signs from any of the primers (winchester), in fact they all looked the same.

There was just a tiny bit of lead in the throat area of the barrel, ...not really "attached" fouling, but some shiney flecks of lead the came out with a patch.

 

[Ian]

I'd be cautious about gleaning any meaningful pressure indications from the primers. With the .45 ACP you'll be way over maximum pressure before you ever see "pressure signs" like sharp corners with LPP's. The .458 Socom is the same way, max pressure is about 35K depending on who you ask, and primers will look fine right up until the barrel extension starts to set back at around 42K, then they flatten out pretty well and start to pucker around the firing pin indent. I think your ejection pattern is telling you it's amping up to a good operating normal somewhere around 5 grains. Aren't you glad you didn't START at 5.5?