Looking at mills

[Brad]

Looking at getting a mill this fall or winter.
I have 3 in mind but can't decide. One is lighter so I can move it with an engine hoist, the others would require much stronger rigging.
One is a small knee mill but close to 1400 pounds, not moving that myself. One is a heavy bench mill, 1100 pounds with stand. Last is a lighter bench mill at 700 pounds with stand.
Lightest is Chinese, middle is Taiwanese, heaviest has a Chinese base and a Taiwanese head.
Cost varies by better than 1000 bucks. All would include a DRO, something I won't get a mill without.
Lightest would likely do all I need to do and cost savings means I can get more tooling up front.
Heaviest would do anything I would even dream of.

Weight is a good thing but since I am not a production shop time isn't a huge factor. Light cuts aren't a big deal for me.

 

[fiver]

where is the weight coming from?
a heavy base and a wobbling chuck is useless.
heavier gears, larger table, or speed reduction type additions= good.

 

[Brad]

Weight is from all over. Much is in the base which leads to reduction in vibration over all. All three would have a spindle that runs pretty true.

 

[Rick]

I think if it were me I would be paying very close attention to what the professor has to say and not touch the CC until he does. But that's me.

 

[Brad]

I think if it were me I would be paying very close attention to what the professor has to say and not touch the CC until he does. But that's me.

I am sure Keith and smokeywolf can give me some direction to help with the decision.

It sort of comes down to "what is good enough" for my needs.

 

[Rick]

It sort of comes down to "what is good enough" for my needs.

Well . . . To each their own I guess but again were it me to "settle for" on such a purchase and then spend years saying ah sh*t, woulda coulda shoulda. It's a big purchase and one where precision is everything. Not so sure I would be quick to "settle for".

 

[Brad]

Settle is a subjective term.
I could get a mill for less than 1/2 what I am looking at.
I have a 1/2 ton pickup because it is enough for me. Could a 1 ton or bigger do things mine can't? Sure could but are those things I do?

It isn't as much about precision as it is ability to handle larger parts, bigger tools, and deeper cuts. I may need 4 passes instead of 2 but my time is cheap.
All three mills are capable of all the precision I will ever need.

 

[Ian]

I'm still saving up for the harbor freight one. Had the dough but missed the memorial day 25% off coupon, which was a good thing because I got a once in a lifetime deal on half a mile of 75" red brand high tensile fence, delivered. The mill will still be there in a few months.

It seems fhat either you get a benchtop mill that yo can pick up off the floor and set there, or you get one professionally installed and bolt your slab to it to hold the house in place. Not much in between that's worthwhile.

 

[KeithB]

What kind of table size do the machines have? And how much space under the spindle nose to the tabletop? I assume your talking an R8 spindle nose type.

 

[Brad]

9x31 max table to spindle 18
8 1/4x33 max spindle to table 20 1/2
8x35 max spindle to table 18

All are R8 spindle nose.

While I hate the expense of paying someone to install the heavier machine I just keep thinking the extra weight is worth it. I also think the Taiwan vs China manufacture makes a difference. Everything I read says the difference in fit and finish is significant.

 

[smokeywolf]

Brad,
Rigidity has a pretty significant bearing on the surface finish of your parts and longevity of the cutting edges of your cutters.
In my experience, Taiwanese machinery is typically of better overall quality, fit & finish, than Chinese.

One other thing that has to be considered is, the level of enjoyment and satisfaction that comes from using a better built machine vs a cheaper machine.
Think of the difference between your good 3 jaw chuck vs the one that came with your tooling package.

 

[JSH]

I heard through the grape vine that Grizzly is going to have their yearly garage/warehouse sale in August, so ya know.

I see a lot of rickety looking benches out there. Reloading and machine benches. A solid bench won't fix a POS tool or equipment. A wobbly bench can turn a good tool into the other side of worthless.

Just watched a demo on a used small mill I am looking at. It is bolted to a wooden bench. When he turned it on and made some passes it was moving around. The whole thing moved when he was changing bits.
My suspicion is his end results are not what he expected,mbut not the machines fault.

My mill will be small by most all standards.

 

[KeithB]

There are some features that are "hidden", you can't just look at a machine and see them, things like material quality and how good a heat treating job has been done to the bedways, drive screws and other sliding/rubbing/bearing components. You won't know how good that is until you've had the machine for a while. That's where a history and reputation are useful to consider.

Second the idea of a sturdy bench/stand under whatever mill you decide on. Heavy doesn't necessarily mean rigid, but it's a big help. When you say install, I take it you mean delivering the machine and getting it on the floor in your shop. It is really not all that hard to anchor equipment to a concrete floor. I had one other person help me both times when I anchored and leveled my 10 x 54 manual mill and my 15 x 50 manual lathe to the floor. I rented a hammer drill, got some redhead floor anchors, and had plenty of shims on hand. I also bought a machine level but for smaller hobby stuff a level from a combination head is probably good enough. With one guy on a six foot pinch bar watching the level while the other guy shoves shims under the contact points the job can be done fairly quickly.

I've moved enough heavy stuff in my life, I now hire out most muscle work and spend my energy doing brain work, i.e. planning and facilitating. We're all at a different place in life, I'll install but won't haul.

I forgot to ask the maximum spindle to column distance and whether that is variable. Closer in = more rigid, further out = bigger part possible. Also what size T-slots? Look in a catalog, usually the cheapest clamping hardware is for 5/8" slots using 1/2-13 screws. Go up or down from there and usually the price goes up. Also think about what kind of vise you plan to get. A good vise is worth every penny, Kurt is top of the line but there are other vise brands just as good, I have several 6" vises but for a smaller machine a good 4" vise might be a good buy. I like the ones that don't have "ears", Just clamp grooves on the sides. You can mount these on their sides, not just flat. Real handy to mill/drill the end of a part.

 

[Brad]

One of the comments I read about the mid level one is from a guy who owned a smaller Chinese mill. He commented on the fact the handles are balanced and don't have a tendency to rotate under their own weight. That kind of detail makes a difference.
Whatever I get it if a bench model I will get the accompanying cast iron base. A sturdy, wiggle free base is critical.

Yes Keith, by install I me getting it from the truck, to the garage, and off the pallet and in place. Leveling and anchoring is a simple task I can do.

Having a drive with a substantial hill doesn't help matters. I need to drive the mill to the garage, no way a pallet jack will climb that hill.

I picked up the lathe with my pickup and it was fine for the short drive. The mill could be 100 pounds or so heavier and I hate stressing the truck like that. On the other hand it was nice driving into the garage and lifting the lathe right off the bed.

 

[KeithB]

Whatever you get I predict you will enjoy owning it immensely!

 

[JSH]

Buddy bought a trip hammer a few years ago. They poured the base seperate from the floor. Lol, actually the base was in two pours and then they had H beams sunk way down. There on the pad for his shop was this square piece of concrete. We always kidded him about such a small shop. Wish I had some of the old pictures.
Fast forward, he uses the trip hammer daily. The base is good but the surrounding floor has cracked. His mills and lathes and other heavy machines are way away. Yet the viberaton has cracked concrete there too.
I got spooked on how much alloy I had piled in one spot/area of my basement, couldn't be good so I spread it out. Dead soft in one spot, WW in another, Lino in another. Then all of my bulk cast bullets in another area. I am not a hoarder, just a Boy Scout, be prepared.
Jeff

 

[JWFilips]

I have always wondered if the Chinese use Chinese tools?
I see these tools at Harbor frieght and they are so tempting but I just wonder what they use to make them?

 

[Ian]

Some of their factories represent the state of the art, others ar dirt floor sweatshops.

 

[freebullet]

I never had regrets purchasing to large or high quality tool. The same can't be said for the other end of the spectrum.

I have 3/4 & 1tons up here. Also have a fold up engine hoist & rigging supplies. You can have them load it right on my truck...

Honeyman over on 84th south of the freeway has a small hydro drop deck trailer that works splendid @40$ iirc

 

[Rick]

I never had regrets purchasing to large or high quality tool. The same can't be said for the other end of the spectrum.

Pretty much what I was trying to say, great minds think alike. If your gonna spend that kind of money get something that in 10 or 15 years you'll still be very pleased with and not still saying coulda woulda shoulda. Cry once.