Looking for mould for H4195 in 30-357

[Barra]

Since the world collapse and pistole and shotgun powders seem to have become extinct over here.
I don’t know where primers are heading either …..
But that beside,
I am gearing up for H4195 (adi 2207) which is still being made and available.
Anyone had much to do with that in the 300blk.
It is a single shot and my cases measured with 1.2 grns less water than commercial 300 blk cases at 24.2 grns H20 . I limit the pressure to 34k psi for the 357 mag cases.
I have tried this powder 14 -15 grns with pp’d and gc bullets of @ 150 grns but it leaves a few kernels in the bore. The accuracy has been o.k. Thou.
What choices for a low node bullet?
I think 10-to 11 grains may get me there but not sure of weight will help it burn or not.
I would like something that stays in the neck like a bore rider with a flat point for hunting and range blasting.
‘That would make it easy to keep soft lube out of the case and off the base for powder contamination.
I would like something that could make use of the 1:8 twist.
I have a limited supply of fast powder for light weights and cat sneeze loads but I will sit on that as much as possible for a while.

Any thoughts or experiences be appreciated.
‘I was thinking of the Lee 230 grn but I don’t bake and hear of conflicting results with the boat tail.
thanks.
‘Bruce.

 

[Spindrift]

Nice rifle, cool cartridge!
If you happen to own something like the Lee c309-200, it might be worth a try. Or something else in the 200 grs neighbourhood. The 309-230 is not the easiest bullet to work with.
Good luck!

 

[Ben]

What diameter cast bullet are you looking for ?
I plain based one of these recently.
It is accurate and is a real lead saver.
The bullet has worked well in a wide variety of .30 rifles.

Ben

https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/lyman-311465-plain-base.7596/

 

[Barra]

I have a few bullets I use but it is a 300blk chamber held back .
300 on the nose and 310 on the drive bands.
I have good shooting with the Lee soup can and other 150 grn -170 bullets.

‘I have made a 300/310 size die but the base bands come out at 0.3105 and won’t fit unless I put them through a 0.310 sizer.
This keeps the drive bands short and in the neck and allows for more bullet in the chamber.


I only go up to 170 grn

I use a 311466 for pp ing .
My most accurate seems to be the 308241 after going through the both sizers.

Since H4198 is pretty slow on the scale I was wondering if I need a heavier bullet to make it burn a bit better.
The suggested Lee 200rn may be worth a go thou.

I mostly just finger seat the Base of a bullet in the case and finger lube with a soft lube and push them in a bit and let the chambering sort out the length.
If I feel real lazy I just use a plugged case and just reprime and throw a charge.
I usually keep it subsonic as the windage is good and still can reach 300 mtres eventually.
I practice off hand and off the bench
It just so happens that Lee soup can and the 150 grn 308 hunter only need a pass though the 310 sizer to shoot well.
I suppose the Lee 200 could be a good bet to work even if I have to lap the nose out a little bit and pb it.

I will have to make a new sizer one day and this double sizing isn’t the best way to do it.

I haven’t played with this powder much and was hoping if someone had some experience with it in the 300 blk and give me some pointers and save a few primers and such.

Thanks

 

[fiver]

the slowest i've used is 4227 in the 300.
but there's no reason why the slightly slower 4198 using 4227 data to start with wouldn't work in a bolt gun.

 

[Mike H]

I have a few bullets I use but it is a 300blk chamber held back .
300 on the nose and 310 on the drive bands.
I have good shooting with the Lee soup can and other 150 grn -170 bullets.

‘I have made a 300/310 size die but the base bands come out at 0.3105 and won’t fit unless I put them through a 0.310 sizer.
This keeps the drive bands short and in the neck and allows for more bullet in the chamber.


I only go up to 170 grn

I use a 311466 for pp ing .
My most accurate seems to be the 308241 after going through the both sizers.

Since H4198 is pretty slow on the scale I was wondering if I need a heavier bullet to make it burn a bit better.
The suggested Lee 200rn may be worth a go thou.

I mostly just finger seat the Base of a bullet in the case and finger lube with a soft lube and push them in a bit and let the chambering sort out the length.
If I feel real lazy I just use a plugged case and just reprime and throw a charge.
I usually keep it subsonic as the windage is good and still can reach 300 mtres eventually.
I practice off hand and off the bench
It just so happens that Lee soup can and the 150 grn 308 hunter only need a pass though the 310 sizer to shoot well.
I suppose the Lee 200 could be a good bet to work even if I have to lap the nose out a little bit and pb it.

I will have to make a new sizer one day and this double sizing isn’t the best way to do it.

I haven’t played with this powder much and was hoping if someone had some experience with it in the 300 blk and give me some pointers and save a few primers and such.

Thanks

The Sierra reloading manual has plenty of data for H4198 powder in the 300 Blackout,running from subsonic to top loads,as well ADI has subsonic loads,with pressure data,for over 200 grain loads.I realise your case is smaller but I think you could find something useful there.
I have used 2205 ,H4227 in my blackout with CBE 313-215 without a gas check and 9.2 grains of 2205,very good,H4198 should be as good.
If there is a private message facility on this forum,contact me and I will send you some various CBE projectiles around 200 grains + that maybe of interest.I am interested in your modest cast loads.
mike.

 

[RBHarter]

PMs are conversations in the menu .

 

[Barra]

Well I tried sending Mike H. a "conversation " but I don’t hint it worked.

Some-one may have to pm me so I know where/what I’m looking at.

 

[Barra]

Yes thanks Mike H
I ended up getting that load data thanks.
The sierra data seems to cover a lot more than the adi loads.
‘Thanks.
I found last night a couple of quick loads data sheets that tell how much% is burnt for loads as well.
I’ve gotten out the 315 clone mould and casting up some to try out hopefully this week end.
gail force winds or not.
My holy grail pope bullet doesn’t want to shoot as There is only the front nose band that engraves when seated.
leaving the rest to to the gods to sort out.
A case of powder load could prove interesting.

 

[fiver]

hover over his name and a box will pop up.
it says start conversation down at the bottom right.
click that and you have a direct person to person private chat.



you can also use the conversation thing at the right on the main page.
it's open for anyone to jump in though, and some confuse that with it being an open PM page.

 

[Mike H]

hover over his name and a box will pop up.
it says start conversation down at the bottom right.
click that and you have a direct person to person private chat.



you can also use the conversation thing at the right on the main page.
it's open for anyone to jump in though, and some confuse that with it being an open PM page.

Thanks for the help,Barra has contacted me.

 

[Barra]

Well thanks Mr Harter and Fiver.
I appeared to have got the p.m. thing going.
I did go down to the range yesterday.
I have made a blow tube to blow out the powder kernals after each shot now.
Ala black powder.
At 11 grns of 2207 it has promise at 50 yards.
At 1024 fps but a lot of powder kernels left still.
I did a ladder test single load till at 14.2 grns it topped 1415fps if I remember right.
bit fast for pb bullets.
The velocities seem to fall apart at about 13.4 grns and we’re over the place a little.
‘Still had heaps of room for more powder.

It seemed the powder kicked in at one level and burnt…..well…cleaner but got worse as the charge went up.
Maybe it reached it’s peak burn capacity.
I dunno.
I may try a powder positioner on the charges and retry and maybe a wad on the bullet base.
See if that helps to ignited it better.

So it does work in a pinch but I will have to test it out at long range to see if they hold up.
Accuracy test maybe next time I try.
200 yard pb load would need 1300+ to stay in the transition zone or just stay sub all the way.

Bruce

 

[fiver]

that's an indicator you need a different powder speed.
you could trick it with a positioner, which will boot things up a notch, but you'll end up starting over again looking for your happy node.

i've done some weird things like use AA-2230 in the 25-20 with a magnum primer to hover around the 1400 pfs area when using a plain base bullet.
it burn clean enough i don't see any mummies, but it's also a ball powder.

 

[Barra]

Well………Mike H has been generous and sent me a Red Cross package of different weight bullets to try.
I did make a blow tube for this but it didn’t work as I left it where I made it and not in my range bag to take with me. The amount of unburnt powder was just amazing.
I had thoughts of just collecting the leftovers in the bore for a second go at burning and probably would work too.
Most of the bullets are in the 190-225 grn weight and the heaviest is the flat point 240 grn
some pictures taken at 50 yards mark.
I dry patched out after each load but may have been better off cleaning well between bullet types.
never the less .





results weren’t spectacular but with a faster powder I bet they would group better.
If I use a kicker Charge it may work like duplex loading but I don’t think I’ll go there.
I don’t think I’d want to load up the 240 grn’ers too much more in my light 5 lb rifle but the pointy ones were slick in that respect.
All in all the 240gn was too long to easily feed with some fiddle factor.
‘The Lyman 3113 was a surprise as it sized down easily and the body wasn’t too long to fit into the neck of the case and front area in the freebore.
In fact all were held nicely in the case neck in relation to two bands in the neck with some hang out.

Didn’t work getting the powder to burn for me more efficiently by upping the weight any, for cast.
maybe I am supposed to size the bullet so it seats on the powder to make it work.
I think Adi may have plucked This out of the air somewhat like the 310 and 2205 loads they list.

Now If I have to choose one for a heavy weight?
I’ll have to think on it a bit.
Thanks Mike And every one.

Bruce.
Simple Things for simple minds maybe?

 

[Mike H]

Very interesting report,until you can obtain some faster powder,maybe you could use the hottest small rifle primers you can find and also try crimping the case mouth to get some more bullet pull.

 

[Barra]

I have looked through my stock of small primers and even the real old ones I use for case forming /blast away at stuff and no magnum primers could be found.
When I get some I will try them.
In the mean time I made just over 100 30-357 mag thing cases. Kindly donated from a young shooter that doesn’t load.
50 fedral and 50 S&B 357 mag cases plus a small hand full more.
Takes me about all day to form 50 cases by the time I deprime ,anneal wash dry them. From in the dies.
I then have to expand the neck and resize in another die as the one I got sizes them way too small.
A slight trim for length and ready for loading.
plus breaks to get some chores done in between.
I still losing 10% of brass. Some crumble when trying to form.
Some the body just have work harden cracks appear.
‘And some the base at the Webb maybe won’t size or re-work.
This brass was from a new Rossie lever gun. It’s chambers seemed to be a little on the looser end
Still learning.
Bruce

 

[Barra]

One for the brains trust.
I ended up getting a sleeve of cci mag srp to try.
So I will try that with the 2207
Errrghhh Arrrghhh Can I just use the powder out of some of these I got given as a kicker charge to get things going?
I think it would.
But I don’t know how much thou.
There has to be at least 500 cases there.

Bruce

 

[fiver]

there's maybe 3grs of powder in them.
it'll be fast not R-1 type fast but probably faster than red-dot fast.
probably close to black powder though.
could use and i certainly wouldn't exceed the 2-3grs in them very quickly, that'll probably have a 'boot' value of over 20-K. which should be enough to get pretty much anything going.

 

[Barra]

Well I found a container and put a decent hand full of the worsted looking 22lr’s in it and with sand , which is mostly dirt and dust and spun them up at 60 rpm’s.

didn’t do much so I emptied some dust out and put in a stick angled across the pipe.
Results were better but not great as can be seen.

Maybe some Coarser real sand will work better or kitty litter.
‘Next attempt I tried a wire brush which worked better but I think a toothbrush size is the go.
It’s about then I remembered I once had a wire wheel of a drill.
now this is a bit course but using a bit of flexible 4mm irrigation tubing for drip garden systems I can hold the bullet by the nose and use the wire brush.
‘After a wipe with Ed’s red and a spin on the nose with a ‘scrubber wheel’? Things look good enough to shoot with a bit of lube.

Back to the original theme.
10 x ww22lr bulk 333 or 555 ammo has 15.5 grains of powder in them.
I will have to verify this as I pulled the worst looking ones and some were definitely been wet and left a hard white residue.Some of the powder looked ’washed’ as well.

I have loaded a few rounds with the magnum primers and 2207 I will let you know how I fare When I can get to shoot them

Duplex loads …..well….thinking it through.


ha ha
Bruce

 

[Barra]

The 22lr’s have 1.42 approx grains of a black peppery power in them.Took. Few more 10x powder out of the 22’s
some Cleaned up with a wire wheel and a rub of reds red on them.Finger lubed with a thin wax lube .
shot so-so in my most hated 22lr. Jury is still out as I discovered my scope was loose when I got home.
dohhh.
Back to work again.

Loaded and shot some mag primer loads with 11 grains adi AR2207.
some saeco clone 315 180 grn some mummies of the brown variety left in the bore.

No tipping.
Cbe 190 grn fp left some mummies as well with one real wide flyer.
I think it‘s the old lube on them playing up.Shows some tipping.

winner for the day would be the cbe 303215 grn pointy bullet.
Burn was clean but showed stringing,but load development would improve that.
minor tipping but upping the charge may help.


So the mag primers helped a lot.
Think 215+ grn bullet could be a good one for my gun and this powder.

I fired some of the lyman3113 bullets with 3.6 grains of bulleye and they grouped o.k. and shot to point of aim and no tipping.

I did try some duplex loads.with adi 2207 and 150 pb bullets they weren’t particularly sedentary and performed like I thought they would.
maybe I could try a case of real slow burning stuff.
I probably not go there again thou.
The fired primers were rounded blown out with a small dimple in them. One was flat but rounded edges with a small dimple.
I think it built some pressure.
Extraction was o.k. But it wouldn’t take much to make it sticky or maybe even try and force a primer in the firing pin hole.
Think I’ll leave it lying still.

The pb bullets leaded a little in spite of a filler used.
I have some fast powders to burn and I’ll keep using mag primers with the adi 2207.


How I missed the mag primer in the load recommendations I dunno.
human I suppose.
Seems I need to stick to 220 min and mag primers to make it work , just like where the load data starts.
ha.
Couple of years we should be getting some fast powders again I hope.

Thanks for the help.
I may post some more efforts if any one is interested.

Bruce.