Low Powered Scopes 1x -2x are very handy

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Scout type scopes are also used for top eject lever actions. I only have one scout scope that's mounted on a Rossi 357 carbine. Rossi offers a optional no drill base that replaces the rear sight. Not even necessary to drill and tap. Just use existing holes.
Now that makes sense
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
For a scoped Carcano it's the only way. You're stuck with clips or a single shot sans major machine work . It also has a split rear ring . Of course balance carry isn't really useful with them .

I don't care for the style but even for a guy that shoots both open the 2-7×32 is is very useable mounted forward to clear the clipped 7×6.8 up to 2.35" or so .
It's a 2-7×32 Leatherwood EER , shortly after I bought it the price doubled .
 

todd

Well-Known Member
I don’t use the Skeeter load either. I know, blasphemy.

Heretic!!!! Disbeliever!!!! Recidivist!!! Unbeliever!!! Desecrator!!! Corruptor!!!!! Defiler!!! just kidding...lol!!!

i use a Skeeter load in a 44 special with either a 250gr penta hp or a 255gr Keith-type boolit. i tried to go under a Skeeter load, but the Skeeter load is accurate, so i use it. Unique might be dirty, but i like it.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I have not loaded Unique in a decade or more. Have some, just haven’t used it.
 

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Unique is one of the two handgun powders, I wouldn't care to be without. Purchase it by the 8# jug, mainly for 9mm, 38 Spl & 44 Special. I never considered it a dirty powder, nor have a metering issue. Have about half of a jug left. Been trying out many different powders in the 9mm carbine for accurate cast loadings. Those powders that don't pass muster are burned up the aforementioned calibers........ conserving the stash of Unique.

Alliant 2400 is the second powder I can't live without. Top end 357 Mag, 44 Mag & 45 LC is where it's consumed.

I know lots of cast shooters like Unique an 2400 for low node rifle loads. I don't own any surplus rifles. The rifles I do own are used strictly for deer hunting so no use for paper punching loads. I can plink with multiple 22's, to hearts content. YMMV
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I have a Marlin Guide Gun with the scout mounted Leupold 2.5x on it. The argument that it enhanced the grip at the balance point is pure hogwash. It moved the balance point too far forward and leaves the rifle awkward for one hand carry. More awkward than if the scope was conventionally mounted or scopeless. At least it does with the Guide Gun.

What it does do (once you learn to use it with both eyes open) is give you extremely fast target acquisition and a precise aiming point at any legal hunting hour in my state. (half hour before sunrise to half hour after sunset) Yes, I find it is faster than a conventionally mounted low powered scope. A red dot is just as fast and visible but not as precise. They are undoubtedly lighter as well. My rifle has back up receiver sights with the scope mounted in Talley QD rings. I tried hunting with the receiver sights but I lose the first and last hour of the most productive time to hunt.

If I was setting up the rifle again I might choose a red dot, but I am happy with it as it stands. It is a great northern Michigan deep woods still hunting rifle.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Skeeter loads are pretty warm. Shot a lot of them. Shot some in guns never intended for them. I use the older powders in older guns and have nothing "new" requiring a "new" powder. I'm okay with that and with not labeling those having a career as Marines, historians and self defense instructors "Mall Ninjas". But, to each their own.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I don’t dislike Unique, it just doesn’t fit a niche in my loading style?

I prefer 231, Red Dot, Titegroup for lower power loads and 2400 for heavier loads. I don’t load much in the middle.

We have so many powders today that weren’t available 50-75 years ago. Had the powders of today been available then I wonder what the “famous loads” would have been.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I don’t dislike Unique, it just doesn’t fit a niche in my loading style?

I prefer 231, Red Dot, Titegroup for lower power loads and 2400 for heavier loads. I don’t load much in the middle.

We have so many powders today that weren’t available 50-75 years ago. Had the powders of today been available then I wonder what the “famous loads” would have been.

Agree 100% with @Winelover on not being without Unique, but the thing is, for me at least, while it does fit a lot of my loads, there are probably also a lot of powders out there which would do a "better" job for any one of those loads, making those loads more perfect.

"Perfect," to me is a balance between actual prefection and nothing, otherwise - "good enough." I've experimented for many years with the idea of casting and loading usable, useful loads, whether "perfect" or not, on a depression-era-budget. I know I harp on Unique a lot, but not because it's the "best" in the sens that I get the greatest power/velocity/trajectory/accuracy, etc., but because I can achieve "good enough" in all those areas, across a wide range of loads, arms and applications. I use W231/HP38 very similarly, because sometimes you get what you can get, but it's another excellent powder for the purpose and one doesn't want all one's eggs in one basket either. But if I had to pick a pound of ONE powder, it'd be Unique.

All of which all leads right back to.... low-powered scopes. I can shoot "well enough" at one hundred and two hundred yards with 3X, but I can't shoot well at all at TWO yards with 9X.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I have a Marlin Guide Gun with the scout mounted Leupold 2.5x on it. The argument that it enhanced the grip at the balance point is pure hogwash. It moved the balance point too far forward and leaves the rifle awkward for one hand carry....
I think that concept is Much more appropriate for bolt-actions, particularly if you've thrown off the weight distribution by using a short(er) barrel.

Levers seem to have been designed as much to be convenient to transport as much shooting.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I'll admit that I wasn't thinking about the benefit of a forward mounted scope on a top ejecting lever action when considering the "Scout Rifle" concept. To me, the Scout Rifle concept is a bolt action rifle with certain qualities. (Qualities well defined by Cooper) OR, in Cooper's own words, a semi-auto with acceptable reliability.

As much as I respect the late Lt. Colonel Cooper, one must not forget the era that shaped his thinking. He was very much a man of his time.

By the time Cooper consulted with Steyr to produce a commercial version of the Scout Rifle, the world had moved on. I will not begrudge Cooper’s right to make some money but by the time Steyr commercialized the Scout Rifle concept, the need for a forward mounted scope had diminished. I always felt that the forward mounted scope was a bit gratuitous on a rifle with a detachable box magazine. It looked cool, but it was no longer as useful.
 

todd

Well-Known Member
the scout scope or eer just doesn't look right on my '08 Brazilian. i doubt that i will like on my sporter Venezuelan m24/30 Mauser. i have my youngest son's remington m7 in 7-08 that i took off the scope and never bothered to get another one. i'm thinking that his m7 is without the rear sight, but i also wonder what it will look like with the eer? i'll have to check on that.

i have another m7 in 7-08 that i haven't used for years. i'd take it deer hunting along with 139gr Hornady fp (discontinued) and a 3-9x Swift. it was devasting on deer, esp under 50 yards. i think it was set 4x.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Cooper may have been a great guy but I still think the scout rifle is tacticool. Had it been proposed for a black rifle would people feel different?
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Cooper may have been a great guy but I still think the scout rifle is tacticool. Had it been proposed for a black rifle would people feel different?

I think it was a good concept for a bolt action rifle, chambered in a short or medium action cartridge like the 308 WIN or 7 x 57, fed from a stripper clip from the top of the receiver.

A short, handy rifle, chambered in a useful cartridge. Back-up iron sights, a useful sling and not too heavy.
All of that was based around Cooper's experience but he was a WWII and Korean War, U.S. Marine. He knew and trusted Mauser 98 actions. The forward mounted scope was an improvement on that platform. It allowed fast shooting with a scope, decent longer-range sighting with a scope and didn't obstruct the top of the action.
By the time the concept got put into a modern form (like say the Steyr Scout Rifle), that forward mounted scope lost a lot of its appeal. By then, I agree that it was getting into the realm of "tacticool".

I don’t think any of that diminishes Cooper’s contributions.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
A forward-mounted, EER or LER, LOW-POWERED scope, considered on its own (and I'm sure Cooper did not invent that idea) on a rifle or carbine still has merit in several applications, but, of course, not all, and certainly not just for the sake of looking cool, because sometimes (ref. @todd 's comment) really is just flat out ugly.

Being of of the fallible types, I confess that I am immensely irritated whenever someone who sees my Rossi or my Carl Gustav M38 and bluts out "a SCOUT RIFLE!" Uh, no. I'm not a scout. Never have been. Never will be. The scope is where it is for specific reasons other than being chic or for .... scouting for a Cavalry or Infantry unit.
 

todd

Well-Known Member
A forward-mounted, EER or LER, LOW-POWERED scope, considered on its own (and I'm sure Cooper did not invent that idea) on a rifle or carbine still has merit in several applications, but, of course, not all, and certainly not just for the sake of looking cool, because sometimes (ref. @todd 's comment) really is just flat out ugly.

Being of of the fallible types, I confess that I am immensely irritated whenever someone who sees my Rossi or my Carl Gustav M38 and bluts out "a SCOUT RIFLE!" Uh, no. I'm not a scout. Never have been. Never will be. The scope is where it is for specific reasons other than being chic or for .... scouting for a Cavalry or Infantry unit.

hey!!! she's just big boned!!!!!!! lol!!!!!!

to tell you truth, i bought the EER because i did not want to drill and tap it for a regular scope mount. now i know, D&T for everybody. if worse comes to worst, i'll put the EER on my 35/30-30.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Not wanting to drill and tap makes sense. That is a decision based on not wanting to alter, or pay to alter, a rifle. It has nothing to do with being tactical or following someone.

I never comprehended the concept of doing things just because someone “famous” did it.