Mag Primers with Buffalo Rifle or 5744

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Good evening
Been shooting Buffalo Rifle Powder in our 50-70 and just like 5744 there are always unburned particles in the chamber and barrel.
So as I was blowing out the chamber one time the thought popped up "what about mag primers"?
Anyone given it a try ? I am fixing to load another batch and thought it would be a good question to ask first.
 

Ian

Notorious member
5744 burns like wet rags in a "straight-walled", oversquare cartridge. It won't clean up until well past the safe pressures of your system. Mag primer might shrink groups a bit but that's about it. That said, I've shot some really good groups over the years from a variety of chamberings using loads that left mummies and soot in the bore [shrug].
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Thank you Ian !
I am thinking load 10 with the LRMP and 10 with LRP and run them side by side with Buff Rifle as we have more of that one.
It is a decent one with a good bore at .515 and clean chamber. Just need to add a ramrod.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
With 5744, that is always a problem with the newly made stuff. The original stuff from IMI in the 1960's, burned pretty clean.

Clean burning is like chrono data, interesting but not important to group size.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'd only worry about if.
A. I had a lot of vertical stringing.
or
B. my groups sucked and I had a barrel full of gunk.

I have a shot shell load similar to what some other guy's shoot and it leaves a trail of black stuff all the way from the hull to the target.
many of them get all worked up about it and try all sorts of stuff to fix it.
I just tip my muzzles to the ground after each shot and keep on doing what I'm doing.
 

Matt

Active Member
With new 5744, old 5744, bottle neck or straight, pistol primer to Federal 215 there has always been an unusual amount of residue in bores and cases. I don’t like it but have never seen accuracy issues or accumulating fouling.
Below is the residue from a max load of XMR 5744, RCBS 500gr GC, and Remington 9 1/2 Magnum primers.
 

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Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
I never have had any unburned powder in several different cartridges. 303brit,7.62x54,303win,3006,3030,350legend. Loaded real light to max. I actually like large pistol primers in the 54r. The gun prefers it
 

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Accurate's data, that I use for my 338W Mag, calls for magnum primers. That's all I ever used..........when I can remember to prime them correctly. I never got consistent groups, with 5744. Much prefer SR 4759. Never notice unburned residue, with either.

Been playing around loading 5744 in my 44 Mag RH. Using Winchester WLP primers. Does pretty good at 60 yards, using a 2X Leupold, off a tripod.
 

Creeker

Well-Known Member
It's dirty in my 45-70 but it works great. So I never worry about what's left in the barrel.
 

farmboy

cookie man
I'm working on a shoestring so I don't have a big supply. But I do have an assortment of powders...5744,4227, unique,2400,4759,3031,4198 and 4064. Just don't have more than 2 or 3 pounds of each. It's a puzzle for me as I want a accurate load as well as one that is comfortable to shoot out of 45/70 Marlin and don't want to waste powder in this time of powder shortage. Any ideas for a logical load?
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I'm working on a shoestring so I don't have a big supply. But I do have an assortment of powders...5744,4227, unique,2400,4759,3031,4198 and 4064. Just don't have more than 2 or 3 pounds of each. It's a puzzle for me as I want a accurate load as well as one that is comfortable to shoot out of 45/70 Marlin and don't want to waste powder in this time of powder shortage. Any ideas for a logical load?

Might not be applicable to a Marlin, but for 340, 375 and 405-grain cast bullet accuracy, my .45-70 rolling block prefers Unique and 2400.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Powder kernel zombies are part & parcel of 50 BMG and 20mm Vulcan milsurp powders like WC-860, 867, and 872, esp. when used in straight-wall cases like the 45/70 or 38/55. I resolve those issues by duplexing the main charge with an initiator charge of IMR-4198, and load with a slight bit of compression to keep the layers in place.

The results are gentle pressures, black-powder velocities, and SUPERB accuracy. Very few zombie kernels remain after each shot, also.

Another route to black-powder-equivalent loads in modern firearms chambered in the old black powder hyphenated calibers like the 45/70 and 38/55 is to use Ross Seyfried's formula with IMR-4198. Take a give caliber's powder weight (70 or 55 grains) and multiply that number by 0.4. In these two examples, that yields weights meant for IMR-4198 of 28.0 and 22.0 respectively. Again, the results are gentle pressures and black-powder velocities. I have extended these tests to 25/20, 32/20, and 44/40 calibers as well--and the rule holds true IME. No zombie kernels here, either.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Add-on to Post #16--

All of the duplexed WC-860 loads use Federal #215 LRM primers.

All of the IMR-4198 loads use CCI SR (#400) or LR (#200) primers. (ETA--I have yet to test Rem #6-1/2 primers with the 4198 loads, to compare their accuracy with that received from the CCI #400s. With other loads in these and other small-case calibers, the Rem #6-1/2s reduced group sizes significantly. This is one "family" of loads yet to be cross-tested).
 
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oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
Just starting on my 38-55 - and with 5744. Venturino's recomended load of 19.0 grns pushing a 265 cast. Yet to shoot it (Cimarron 1894 26" rifle). Also going to try the 4198 recommendation above (and have pulled it from you guys before).

I have a bunch of 2400. What are you guys using for easy (~1400 fps-ish) pet loads of 2400 in both the 38-55 (265 grn cast) and 45-70 (300/350/405 cast)?

Thanx!
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
try 20grs.
10grs. of unique will get you about 1300 fps. and will quite often shoot to your sights depending on the rifle.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I have a bunch of 2400. What are you guys using for easy (~1400 fps-ish) pet loads of 2400 in both the 38-55 (265 grn cast) and 45-70 (300/350/405 cast)?
Never owned a 38/55 but 24 grains is a standard target load for the Trapdoor Springfield. It is about 1250 f/s from the long barrel but is very accurate. You may have to adjust it for 300 and 350's.