Maximizing accuracy in semiauto 9mm

BHuij

Active Member
I never got the keyholing other people complained about with this mold, but I did get leading for the first bit, even when powder coating. That's resolved now, I just think I can do a lot better for accuracy. The other day at the range a fellow caster let me shoot his Ruger 1911 in .45 ACP using some Lee TC bullets over his pet load of Bullseye. That thing put 7 rounds into one hole at 25 yards. I realize my M&P will probably never do that, but I do think there's some more accuracy potential to squeeze out of it. And y'all know how much I love to tinker.
 
Last edited:

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
That mold is not one of the bad ones. IMO, the conventional lube 122gr Lee TC is THE place to start
if you are going to tackle the 9mm Para. The Lee 105 gr .38 SWC is another good one, too. Much like
a miniaturized H&G 68.

Bill
 
Last edited:

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
I have been following this thread with interest, don't load 9mm but wonder if a lot wouldn't hold true to 380 auto?
 

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
For the 380 ACP, you go with a lighter bullet. I tried the Lee 125TC and it did not work well. I am using the Lee 95 RF and the better one is the Accurate 35-100B @ 100 gr. OAL seems to be more critical for 380 than for 9mm, may be just my guns. Nothing tricky about 380, usual process works fine, you just want to make sure you expand the case mouth enough to seat your .356 or .357 bullet w/o shaving, then taper crimp.
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
Good to know, I have a Saeco TC,125 grainer that I wanted to use, no joy.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
100 is really the upper end for a 380.
but if I had a 125gr mold and a 380 I'd probably have to try it at least once.

if you use the load techniques discussed for the 9mm with the other semi-auto rounds you will have a lot more success.
when I put together some 40's for the BIL and SIL I just done what I do for the 9 and they both have good ammo.
everyone that sees what they are shooting usually asks about their 'unusual' ammo since I used the bullets I had for my old 38-40.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I haven't reloaded 380 ACP for a long time. I have owned and loaded for several, though--and the 380's features in my pistols mimicked the 9mm Luger's stuntwork--wide throat and groove specs and too-fast twists being chief among them. The usual run of .355" jacketed bullets were inaccurate in all of them. I got away from the caliber entirely before investing in cast bullets to feed it and the R&D required to make them behave.

"The Last Straw" for the 380 ACP came about the time I found and bought one of the 9mm Makarov pistols that became available After The Wall Came Down (c. 1992). Mine is a East German variant, which is allegedly one of the better ones. I loved this little monster from Day 1. It is flawlessly reliable, I cannot recall a single failure to function of any kind since it landed here 26+ years ago. I carry it in summer clothes quite a bit, using Russian-made 95 grain JHP ammo that clocks 1075 FPS with its 95 grain bullet. It is a bit of a handful, given its blowback operation; the recoil spring must be manipulated to be believed, it is STRONG. As the late Frank Barnes in Cartridges of the World stated in his text--"The 9mm Makarov is likely operating at the limit of blowback pistol system capacity." Only my Glock 29 running Silvertips bucks harder and snorts louder. Both are still fun rides, though.

Well the Rooskies followed suit with the rest of the world in their interpretation of "Nominal 9mm service pistol"--the dimensions are poetic, ranging in examples I have handled from .362" to .366" in throats and grooves. My own has a .364" throat and grooves run a couple tenths smaller. The component bullet makers acknowledged this poetry early-on......Sierra jacketed bullets were made in .363", Speer at .364", and Hornady at .365" (IIRC). I ran Speers and a few Hornadys through my pistol, and they shot better than any 380 bullet I ever tried in any 380, factory load or home-rolled. I liked that part.

The Mak also has an insanely-fast twist rate--1 turn in 240mm. Even faster than 1-10" or 4 turns/meter, IOW. SHEESH. Gotta expect that, I suppose--the Makarov is basically a Walther PP on steroids, with addition of external slide release and deletion of American mag release button; that part follows Euro dogma with its bottom-release pivot.

Not long after acquisition, I bought an RCBS 100 grain RN mould and .365" H&I die to produce bullets for practice and recreation. In 92/6/2 alloy the bullets fall out at .366"+ and the tool is a delight to use. I have yet to have an RCBS mould NOT be a delight to use. Seated and taper crimped at .980" OAL, these feed reliably and shoot right with their jacketed counterparts as above. Powder weights are 380 ACP + 10% to 15%. Makarov pistols are only semi-reliable using book-max 380 ACP data, IME. I have yet to lead the barrel, using 50/50 BW/Alox and sized at .365". Shooting history has been +/- 600 rounds of jacketed bullets and +/- 1500 rounds of RCBS castings, in the 1000-1075 FPS ball park for almost all of them.

What It All Means--if your 380 is a disappointment downrange, do a Tale of the Tape on throat and grooves. Size castings at that throat spec, and get an expander spud that corresponds to your bullets' diameters. Figure out what OAL feeds reliably. Don't be afraid to load the 380 up to its full potential--most American 380 ammo is significantly under loaded. Browning's original velocity envelope for the 95 grain FMJ/RN was 905 FPS in the Model 1908 pistol--if you aren't running 825-850 FPS in your PPK/S, you are cheating your assailant of full value and your pistol of full reliability. Get some Euro-spec ammo to carry in the 380 ACP--American ammomakers don't take the 380 ACP (or the 9mm Luger, for that matter) seriously.
 
Last edited:

BHuij

Active Member
Resurrecting this thread a bit. The past couple of months were spent purchasing a home, closing on said home, then trying to convince the sellers to move out of said home on their contracted date, failing, juggling U-Haul trucks, and finally moving into the home and cleaning up a lot of messes left by the hasty exit the sellers made (only a day or so late, luckily).

BUT let me tell you about how much easier it is to support a casting and reloading hobby when you have a garage and no longer live in a 2-bedroom apartment ;) On top of that, my wife is thrilled that the reloading equipment and supplies have never even been in the house, and probably never need to, since our garage is well-insulated.

I may or may not have also bought a 3D printer and spent a few weeks playing with that before getting the reloading stuff unpacked.

SO, where we stand now after I read through this whole thread again:

1. I pulled the trigger on a Lee 120gr TC (non-TL) mold. Excited to play with it, but I'll likely have to play with the cavities again, since my M&P seems to like .358" bullets so far.

2. I'm going to try a slightly harder alloy, proceeding with the mindset that 9mm is, in many ways, effectively a rifle cartridge. Probably start with something like 4 parts WW alloy to 1 part foundry type, which boils out to roughly 95/4/1. I was getting plenty good fillout with even less than 1% tin before, and with this alloy my cost per bullet is still well under $0.01, so if it performs, it's a great alloy for the job on all other fronts.

3. I also need to take a measurement of my barrel throat. Presumably this is easier with a short and removable pistol barrel than a rifle. Does anyone have a good way to do a pound cast or otherwise come up with a good measurement? Once I know my throat dimensions, I'll have a really good starting point for target bullet diameter and seating depth.

4. It's probably time I took another whack at knocking the carbide factory crimp ring out of my Lee crimp die. I tried the 9/32 nut driver + hammer approach a couple of years ago and couldn't get it to budge; it's really in there. So since then I've just been skipping the crimp step. My expander die is using a 38 S&W expander plug in place of the stock 9mm Luger one. This is a little wider and a lot longer, so I'm no longer swaging bullets upon seating. My seating die is set up such that it only seats and the crimping part of it never touches the case. I'm at a happy medium where my .358" bullets seat easily and without shaving or swaging, but also don't move after seating even with a lot of thumb pressure, but with a new bullet design I'm not counting on that necessarily remaining the case. At any rate, a crimp step would theoretically help even out inconsistent neck tension since I'm using 100% range pickup brass. I want accuracy, but not enough to sort 9mm headstamps ;)

Will report back after I've had a chance to try some stuff out!
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you have made some real moves in the right direction. My Lee 122 TC mold will JUST make .358 with my
WWt plus a touch of tin alloy, so you may luck out.

Congratulations on the home and reloading in the garage, too.

Bill