Most versatile gun?

[fiver]

or you could just shoot grouse with your rifle.
[the rules change quickly in the scenario most are talking about, and your just wanting food]
but I can attest to the viability of grouse shooting with light weight cast bullets in a rifle, mostly through the complaints about having to eat 50-60 grouse every fall from the three drunken monkeys.

 

[Mitty38]

Speaking to the rifled Choke mention in the first post.
I have an Remington 870 youth 3 inch magnum chamber in 20 guage. With 2 barrels, several chokes.

If I deer hunt, I use it with a Carlsons rifled choke tube. With 2 3/4 Remington sluggers. 21 inch smooth bore barrel.
Gun is chambered for 3 inch but seams like a little slower is a little better with the rifled choke tube.
I have taken deer with it at 110 yards, clean, with that set up. Hog out to 75 yards.
With a rifled choke. First you have to find just the right combination. With my gun the non magnum load does better..
Once you get the slug, and load, the rifled choke likes (what it likes greatly changes when you screw that choke on). Sight in at 75 yards. It will generally stay within an inch drop from cross hairs at 100 yards. It gets about 2 moa with a slug.

So just have to remember at that distance. You can be about 3 inches low and can hit 2 inches one way or the other from your aim point.

Plus allow for your own operator error to the variables, which seam to greatly increase after 50 yards with a shotgun.
After 90 yards you are loosing a lot, in drop and velocity. That little extra choke tube spin on the bullet is not going to help you much.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have lived a love hate relationship with the 410. Like many my first was a single and of coarse I loved it. I shot hand thrown clays as well as anyone could but failed miserably on game. Not realizing its pattern dencity was dismal past 20-25 yards. I bought myself a high grade Charles Daly 410 with fine walnut VR and engraving deep bluing. It was light and very quick and I shot it very well in skeet and hand thrown clays. But even on birds flushing close unless they where from your feet winged birds where common. I sold it off and retired from the 410. That was 30+ years ago. Some twenty I bought a grail gun. A NICE Savage 24/410. And it was my dedicated bunny gun. I couldnt believe I could roll bunning past thirty to thirty five yards easily!! I quickly learned the 410 was best when used as a rifle that shot shot!

Those Henrys also caught my eye, but a lil too late. I wanted that short AXE. well it was unobtanium and when I finally found some I wasnt paying neat 2000!!! I bought another Charles Daly, this time a HONCHO. Think scaled down cheapened/ turkish made 870. But its been real good and has a groove in rec top a d a steel front blade site. I cast slugs and balls and found a way to accurately shoot 40 cal bullets. Grouping 8/10" @ 100 WITHOUT A BUTT STOCK off hand!!

A word on 444 brass... YES, it fires. BUT some guns wont cycle because that rim is small/thin. IF your gun will accommodate the slightly thicker rim of the 303 Brit (blown straight) you will have a better case. (Longer too)
I just got a order in from Ballistic Products with wads and such so I can load again. I also cast a .390/.395 ball thats VERY ACCURATE!! Today I have a half doz 410's and all shoot these 2/3ball loads into a frisbee @ 50 yards.
I have a couple videos on my channel better explaining and showing what I have tried.
Interested to see what you come up with.
CW

 

[Bret4207]

1 turn in 38" has supported 200-grain .44 slugs since the Civil War.

Okay, but are there 1-38 410 choke tubes for the Henry?

 

[RBHarter]

9.3×74 blown straight .
When using brass cases you gain .205 in useful case length over plastic because there's no crimp to open filling the last .205 of the chamber . As seen occasionally when shooting 2-3/4 12 ga in 3"+ chambers the step can peel a wad petal back . Shot on the bore , gas leaks , deformed shot stack , etc .

That 74 mm case gets pretty close to 3" so the trim for a 2.5 , 2.7? , easily to full chamber length .

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Yes but its hard to locate and expensive when you do.
But yup, gives you full 3" capability.

 

[Ian]

Okay, but are there 1-38 410 choke tubes for the Henry?

Who knows, but surely they won't be slower. Briley makes choke tubes for just about everything. You mentioned slow twists need heavy bullets but the opposite is actually true, long bullets need faster twists (Swedish Mauser with 160-grain bullets, anyone?). Point being you could at least use 200-grain slugs in a .410 with rifled tube, likely a great deal more and certainly less.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

When I tried 40 cal cast it was atrocious. When I affixed a swc upside down to a "stump wad" I was rewarded with 2" 25 yrd groups!!! If I had a real set of sights Im sure that would improve!! Stabulisation was/is key!
This was thru a smooth bore and NO CHOKE.

CW

 

[RBHarter]

There are all sorts of wad manipulations , it's even rumored to be possible to make a wad spin in a smooth bore ....it's not consistent but it's enough to blow patterns , probably enough for RB though .

The 9.3×74 PPU isn't too bad and less than half of actual 410 brass .

 

[fiver]

back in the 70's there used to be a company named spin... no twist wads.
the legs on the wads were kinda similar to a AA but they had 4 posts angled and twisted to about 45 degrees.
they had a pretty robust and squared off gas cup, and 4 petals.
the idea was for the cup to push straight forward and the legs would sort of collapse pushing the shot cup into a right hand spinning motion.

it didn't work like they claimed, the legs just collapsed and everything went forward like normal.
I might actually still have some of them here, or they might be loaded up in some federal cases I can't remember.... LOL

 

[CZ93X62]

Most useful......12 gauge repeater. The End.

 

[Bret4207]

Who knows, but surely they won't be slower. Briley makes choke tubes for just about everything. You mentioned slow twists need heavy bullets but the opposite is actually true, long bullets need faster twists (Swedish Mauser with 160-grain bullets, anyone?). Point being you could at least use 200-grain slugs in a .410 with rifled tube, likely a great deal more and certainly less.

I didn't say that at all. I'm not an idiot. I said, "... with a slow twist you usually have to push a heavy for the caliber design hard to keep it grouping." How hard do you really think he can push a 200 gr bullet from a 410?

 

[Ian]

I never implied anything about your intellectual capacity, Bret, nor would I. It appears I misread the gist of your post. What I speculated about choke twist and bullet weight within the limitations of the .410 still stands, i.e. if a rifled tube with at least 1 turn in 38" is used (a minimum, don't you think, and likely much faster if one were available?), then 200 grain bullets propelled within the shell's capability would surely be useful.

 

[jordanka16]

Most useful......12 gauge repeater. The End.

My thinking is more of a broad stroke. How effective the gun is, but also how heavy it is, how heavy the ammunition is, which is why I think .410 would work.

The other benefit is that if .444 marlin cases work I an load them with equipment I already have, which I can't say for any other shotgun shell, never mind needing different primers, so that's a huge advantage too.

 

[CZ93X62]

I love the 410. Heck, I love all shotguns. Some of the Hevi-Shot loads seem to turn the 410 into a 20 gauge. Get the info from Ballistic Products, and a THANK YOU to Fiver for that heads-up some months back.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I picked up a High Standard 410 Pump a few months back. Best part was It didnt cost me a dime and its a gun I have wanted for some years but ya just dont see them often or in good condition.
Ran across a man whos father was a High Standard Gunsmith. Im in Connecticut a d so was High Standard for many many years.
My friend was wanting the High Standard prison model or the Buck Hunter.
This man said he had and would sell. Thrns out he had more than that! He had every model if everything High Standard made... EVERY MODEL OF EVERY GUN! He pulled out four shotguns & said he would only sell all as a package. They where doubles (or quadruples) Any how, the price he wanted was what my buddy said was his top mark. So a deal was struck, paper work completed and all was done, or so I thought.
One night, about a month later he says to me he has a present for me. He hands me this 410 and says I have zero use for this gun! I know you like these things and I want you to have it!


I also did a Video.... But as it was last year its deep in previous videos and as I can't post it or a link to it here... Well sorry

CW

 

[RBHarter]

Well a 255 can be driven 2000 fps MV out of a 18" 45-70 1895G there's plenty of room in a 2.705 brass case for powder to burn . Keeping the pressures sane and compatible with the 18kpsi of the 410 action is another thing all together .

 

[Bret4207]

I never implied anything about your intellectual capacity, Bret, nor would I. It appears I misread the gist of your post. What I speculated about choke twist and bullet weight within the limitations of the .410 still stands, i.e. if a rifled tube with at least 1 turn in 38" is used (a minimum, don't you think, and likely much faster if one were available?), then 200 grain bullets propelled within the shell's capability would surely be useful.

We're good

 

[Bret4207]

Well a 255 can be driven 2000 fps MV out of a 18" 45-70 1895G there's plenty of room in a 2.705 brass case for powder to burn . Keeping the pressures sane and compatible with the 18kpsi of the 410 action is another thing all together .

Exactly.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I have little love for the .410. As a shotgun it doesn't throw enough shot and as a slug gun it is an undersized and underpowered smooth bore. I've seen a few people that mastered the .410 as a shotgun but they were extremely skilled shooters. As a shotgun, the .410 is an expert's gun.
Sorry if I stepped on some toes but if I was seeking a "do it all" gun, a pump action 12 gauge would probably be my choice.