MP227-65-GC

[Spindrift]

Currently, my only centerfire .224 caliber, is a .223 rem 1-12 ROT barrel for my Rössler titan alpha bolt gun. This is a switch- barrel gun. My results with cast bullets in the .223 has, so far, been pretty mediocre. I decided to try the MP227-65, and got a 6-cav brass mould.

When this mould reach casting temp, bullets are raining! Very few rejects, and very narrow weight distribution.

Shot these bullets for the first time today. Bhn around 15. Copper checks, size/crimped .226, base first, through NOE sizer die. Pan lubed with my «favourite lube», detailed in the lube section. Bullets were visually sorted, only.

Loaded to light jam fit, which caused good landmarks on the nose, and circular marks in the front driving band from throat contact. At this COL, the base of the bullet was flush with the shoulder/neck- junction.

Loaded several different loads with various powders, «fishing» for a good load. Many good groups, actually- almost 1MOA. Shot at 100m, from prone with support on a bag.
Norma 200/12grs looks promising. A couple of pistol powder loads (Universal 6grs, and Vectan Ba9 6grs) looked promising, as well.

It certainly looks like a good fit! I’ll have a lot of fun with this (consuming minimal amount of components, in the process)

 

[Ian]

Good work! Those .22s can be tricky. I'm still struggling to get the 55-grain version of that bullet under 2 MOA at 100 but was insisting on at least 2700 fps. The mould I have (on loan from a friend) was from the first run that turned out to be undersized, but it's perfect for powder coating.

 

[Spindrift]

Thank you!
I will shoot this bullet at various velocities, with conventional lube and PC. But for starters, I will hang around these nodes a bit, to explore the accuracy potential. You know; crawl ->walk->run

 

[CZ93X62]

The 22 calibers are the esoteric section of the hobby field, for certain. Slower twist rates seem to pay off with these calibers, to some degree. My rifles at the extremes of 22 centerfire capability--22 Hornet with its 1-16" twist and 22-250 with its 1-14" (Savage) and 1-12" (Pac-Nor) twists seem most appropriate for the castings with conventional size/lube processing. I have one bolter with 1-9" twist that threatens good work with RCBS 22-55-SP, but is squirrelly about powder selection. First World problem, though--they all can drive tacks with J-words. Onward to all-copper Barnes offerings, too.

 

[fiver]

try 10-11grs of your N-110.

 

[Intheshop]

Nice write up spin,thanks for sharing,and the pics! Most,of my slow twists dote on the 55g with the old .222,"go to" load with 4198 around 18-19g. Not saying there aren't others that would or do, work as well. There's something to,using a known JB accuracy load from a slightly smaller chambering,with cast in the larger. 222 loads for 223/22-250. ...... 308 JB accuracy loads in 30-06. So on and so forth. Haven't(and probably won't) work out some strategic "testing" protocol cause,well.... once the rig is shooting bug holes,you'll find me out chasing animals.

I know a cpl years ago was toying with some 22 cast in something or other. And was looking at the bullet from a balance standpoint.... took a drift punch of the same basic diameter as the bullet..... mounted it vertically(tip up)in a small drill press vise on the loading bench. And don't ask where's or whys cause,beats me but. If the tip of this punch has it's end center ground to the very slightest of angles,such the dead center is a degree or two,"longer"....meaning it ain't dead flat,its convexed.... and you put a checked 22 on it,it don't take an optical comparitor to see imbalance. It's "quick",not remotely painstaking as it sounds because,of the matched OD's. You just set it on there,and look for the ones that sit up nice and proud. These aren't lubed at this stage.

It's just a way to get a visual that your brain can quickly process. Almost exactly like rolling a loaded round down a slight incline. You'll see any alignment issues. Get the lighting right and it gets even easier. Can do this on bullets too,before lubing/loading. Just sayin,if it isn't quick and painless..... it probably ain't gonna get done... and you're using too much brain energy. Hard to put into words. It's a visual-brain-processing.... similar to an auto body ace,that can run his hand over a panel and process the info. Good luck with your project.BW

 

[Spindrift]

Fiver; actually, I shot a few groups with N110 as well, it was also good. 11grs gave the best group (pic below) at about 1950fps. This is a slightly hotter load than the Norma200/ 12grs, which was about 1800fps.

I shot a few groups with N120 as well. In larger cases, like 6,5x55, N120 is a bit faster (~10%) than Norma 200; in the .223, they had switched places. My test loads with N120 were a tad to low, but groups were coming together at 12grs.

ITS; I have a few jars of imr4198. I treat then with a bit of reverence, since they are probably the last jars of 4198 to be found in the kingdom of Norway
But I will certainly try it at some point.
Your system for visual sorting sounds interesting. But the thing is, in my reloading room, nothing is flat or square . Shapes are, kind of, more.... organic . But I have taken a mental note of your tip, thanks!

 

[Kevin Stenberg]

I assume by your pictures. You are shooting lubed bullets sized to .226.
I looked at that mold and was concerned that PC a .227 bullet and then sizing it to .225. Would cause problems by decreasing the dia. too much.

 

[Spindrift]

Yes Kevin, bullets are pan lubed, with a tumble lube overcoat- then sized .226. I haven’t powder coated any bullets yet. But I will, eventually. I don’t think it would be a problem to size down coated bullets to .225. But in my case, adding coat to the very well-fitting nose will significantly alter my «maximum COL».

This autumn, I have focused on my casting technique. My lead thermometer has seen a lot more use, and I have found my alloy demands (for some reason) higher temp than typically recommended (800F!), when casting .22-.30cal bullets. I have revisited bottom pouring, with success- this probably has to do with the state of my spouted RCBS-ladle. It is looking a little worse for wear . I’m getting less weight variation, fewer rejects and- I think- better results.

 

[Spindrift]

Shot some more groups today. I’m very happy with the performance of these bullets. Still visual sorted-only, from 6-cavity mould .
Explored the Ba9 further, with 6,3-6,6-6,9 grs. All groups were good (5 shots, ~1,5MOA). Particularily curious with the 6,6 grs group, almost straight horizontal string. Maybe worthwile to hang around that node a bit, and play with COL?
Seems to be a broad node in the 6-7grs range with Ba9

 

[Ian]

Did you notice any wind?

 

[Spindrift]

It was very quiet today, can't blame the wind.... Very relevant question, though

 

[fiver]

coal [meh call it bullet placement] or primer swap [looking for a different cup hardness] might could be a case length issue from the firing pin slamming the cases.
I know it sounds odd but at the lower end and where your real close to a dead on node little things like the firing pin slapping the primer or the case moving can cause little issues like this.
seems like minutia, but it can matter.

 

[freebullet]

Nice work!

 

[Spindrift]

Tried some variations of the Ba9/ 6,6grs load today (1640fps in 18in barrel). With/without factory crimp. Shorter COL vs jam fit. Win small pistol primers, vs CCI srp. And a hotter load, 15grs viht n120 (2230fps). The loads were remarkably consistent today as well, with 5-shot groups at a little over 1MOA. Groups were a little bigger with the pistol primers, but I have done no load dvelopment with these primers yet.

I’m very happy with these results. Actually, I’m not sure how much better I can shoot, lying on the ground in 30˚F with support on a bag. I never expected such good results with visually sorted .22 bullets from a 6-cav mould. I think I will call this «end-of-load-development», at least for now. And just shoot the loads I’ve got

I have noticed a tendency towards better groups with a light «factory crimp» in the .223. I have found this quite consistently, but need more data before I can conclude. Any views on this?

 

[Ian]

Crimp and primer are big variables here with the little .223, little changes have big impacts. Seating depth and neck tension are some other important variables. Why? Because you are breech-seating the bullet with the primer.

Looks to me like the load is a winner, now "the name of the game is everythjng the same".

 

[Intheshop]

I've sorta fallen for that Lee collet crimp thing..... different approaches to using it though.

Was loading a favorite '06 the other day,where the brass is on it's last legs. Primer pockets are getting loose,and has been loaded a dz times with several annealings. Anyway,the above "crimper" dosen't get,set it and forget it.... it is completely by feel.

Put loaded round in shell holder with L hand,grab press handle with R hand. Now left hand goes back N forth from turning the case in the holder and screwing the die in. Translates to; the "crimping" action is not a single event. I'm looking for the amt of pressure being exerted on the case neck. These aren't turned necks,and in general kinda sucky cases,and tired. Tough to describe and not a 223.

It's also not a rolled in crimp like what typical seater dies produce. Which,if adjusted to the finest of degrees can work. And is durn useful in some applications so not disparaging them. But in my pea brain it's two completely different "crimps". I've "bead rolled" enough tubing to get a feel for how tube end, "shapes" can really change their strength in that particular spot on the tube or case(handloading). Pay attention to what the "crimp" looks like after firing.....there's some clues in the post mortem that may guide you or the amt that is used during loading.

On a well balanced load,out of a nice rig crimping is not that big of deal meaning you probably don't even need it. But because there's so many aspects to CB loads that fall outside "normal" loading procedures,a crimp can sometimes have dramatic effects on target. A crutch? Maybe,but if you got a broken leg and there isn't anything you can do about it other than sitting on the couch(give up on a load)..... heck,give me a crutch.

 

[Spindrift]

I have nothing against crutches. They can be pretty useful, under certain circumstances

Generally, I’m not a «crimper». I don’t subscribe to the idea that a crimp is universally useful. I always try to avoid unnecessary tasks in my reloading routine (such as worrying wether the cases look pretty). But crimping is an interesting tool to have in the toolbox. And, while I’m not ready to make any bold statements, I have an accumulating mass of observations where a light (factory) crimp seemed to shrink my groups. Maybe I have to look more systematically at the (possible) merits of crimping.

 

[fiver]

don't think of it as crimping.
think of it as enhancing neck tension or more manipulation of the pressure rise.

I have found when I use pistol primers in a load I worked up with rifle primers I needed to raise the powder amount to compensate.
it worked out on paper to neither be good or bad since the groups floated back into the can't tell e''m apart zone but I have like 100-K pistol primers and only 50-K rifle primers so having the option made sense to me.

 

[Spindrift]

don't think of it as crimping.
think of it as enhancing neck tension or more manipulation of the pressure rise.

Actually, fiver, I do.... probably learnt it from you! Along with a lot of other stuff I have learnt in this forum. A big thanks to all you guys, helping me along!