My .30-06, the CBE 195gr. Loverin, and gasp! Lil Gun.

[Maven]

Several years ago I acquired 2 lbs. of Lil Gun (at a very good price!), but later found that its usage was limited, e.g., the .410 shotgun shell, the .44mag. with heavier jacketed bullets, etc. On line discussions of it were highly inconsistent (forcing cone erosion, burns hot -> great powder, etc.), yet its burning rate roughly equal to SR 4759, a tad faster than 2400, but slower than AA #9. That being the case, I wondered, could I use it as a CB propellant in my .30-06? The short answer is most definitely yes. After monkeying with LG in my Ly. pistol powder measure, I found a rotor which would drop 18.4 - 18.5gr., which is about what I used to use with faster burning WC 820 (AA #9). The cases were neck sized Rem. '06, expanded with a Ly. M-die, and primed with WLR primers. The CB was a 195gr. CBE gc'd Loverin sized to .311". The results were surprising: accurate, but slow. I.e., I actually got off my butt and set up my Shooting Chrony (sans sky screens as it was overcast and thus unnecessary) and got a mean velocity. of only 1156 fps +-17 fps. I'd like to bump that up to no more than 1,400 fps, but don't wish to tempt fate by using much more than 20.5gr. Lil Gun. Btw, there were no pressure signs at all and the case necks were barely sooty.

Thought you'd like to know and maybe try it yourself. Btw, my "go to" load for CB's in the '06 and similar cartridges is 12.5gr. Unique. If Lil Gun comes close, I'll be very pleased.

 

[Maven]

After reading this from 303Guy on the Boolits site, I wrote to Hodgdon about their recommendations. I'll post their response here, which I'm guessing won't be until next week:

Just to give an idea how weird the stuff is, in the 22 hornet I can get higher velocity with it than the larger capacity k-hornet. Hodgdon have even dropped the 55gr k-hornet loading for it. In the k-hornet, it produced higher pressure and lower velocity than the standard hornet with 55gr bullets. In the Brit, I had my first ever hard to open bolt after firing and I'm not talking stiff loads. 20gr I think it was. 4227 can go up to something like 28grs.

 

[Spindrift]

Interesting powder, thanks for sharing. I don’t know Lil’gun, besides where it is on the powder burn chart. What does the powder grains look like?
Good luck with your shooting!

 

[Maven]

Shiny black, but fairly fine grained, something like sugar or table salt.

 

[fiver]

the K-hornet thing is fairly easy to understand.
square shoulders on a case will kick up the burn rate on pretty much every powder.

 

[JamieHazel]

PhoneyChrony virus has things really backed up and moving slow. You will get a FULL STOP WARNING reply back from Hodgdon the second your email gets read I bet.

LilGun is basically a fast lot version of H110/W296/WC297 without the flash deterrents. It is much more at home in larger straight walled rounds running at full tilt. You are flirting with disaster in the 30-06 in my opinion, your body, your gun, your choice though. I do not pay your hospital bills.

I would only ask one question aloud, Would you load a 30-06 with H110?

Some family tree reading:
https://www.handloadermagazine.com/propellant-profiles-12

 

[Maven]

No, but I have used WC 820 (AA #9), which is a tad faster than Lil Gun in my '06 with no ill effects.* However, I have taken your concern to heart and will probably use it in my .44mag. at starting loads only.


*up to 21.5 gr. with 175 gr. - 195 gr. CB's.

 

[JamieHazel]

I had the concern, I expressed it. I will sleep better tonight. The first rule of H110/296 is now and has always been how far not to reduce it. What you do is up to you though, not trying to sound like it may have sounded. I shoot a pinch of red dot in my 06 often. You could not pay me to put H110/296/LilGun/MP-300/CFE-BLK in there though.

 

[Joshua]

You could not pay me to put H110/296/LilGun/MP-300/CFE-BLK in there though.

What is frustrating is that I want all these magnum pistol/carbine powders to be an easy replacement/enhancement for 2400 in full sized, bottlenecked, cast rifle loads. I especially want Shooters World Blackout/Lovex D063-02 to work well in this application, because it’s quite inexpensive. I suspect that it would be just as dangerous as these other powders in my 30-06.

Josh

 

[Brad]

H110 not only doesn’t like to be reduced but also needs enough bullet weight to get the pressure rise it needs for a good burn.

The way I think of it is this- primer begins to ignite the powder. H110 wants pressure to burn properly. If the bullet moves too soon, or is too light, the pressure drops due to increase in volume. Of the pressure drops too much the powder stops burning properly. That is a squib.
If in a revolver the bullet hits the forcing cone as the powder burn is dropping then you suddenly have a stop in volume increase. This suddenly lets the powder begin to burn right and pressure rises fast. Now we have a bullet lodged in the forcing cone and rising pressure. This is a hang fire and also where I believe SEE comes from.
Give H110 what it wants and it is an excellent powder. Play loose with it and it can bite you. It is truly a powder for top end, standard to heavy for cartridge bullet, loads.

 

[waco]

Lil Gun works well in my .221 Fireball with 40gr Nosler BT’s.

 

[JonB]

LilGun is my Goto powder for jacketed bullets in 22 Hornet.

 

[mattw]

Gotta second the 221 Fireball loading... makes 100 yard one hole groups with good bullets.

 

[fiver]

I would only ask one question aloud, Would you load a 30-06 with H110?

it doesn't shoot half bad actually, but I think 1680 shows more promise.
if you want actual data the rcbs cast bullet book has it for H-110.

 

[Bill]

The rcbs book also has data for h110 in the 30-30, when I bought my first 16 lbs of wc-820 I loaded 15 grains of each powder to check and see how close they were, the velocity an accuracy was great for both and nearly identical to each other, I have gone on to shoot many pounds of 820, but only the first 20 of h-110 test loads

Bill