My try at HV cast

popper

Well-Known Member
I still have a smile from ear to ear. Know what you mean, tried to hide it from my friend when I did MOA @ 200 for the first time ever. He said 'looks like you got that load down pat' and I bit my lip. I'm using a NLG version of that 168.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to let everyone know I haven’t given up on this project. My 7 day break I get every month has been more like 2 or 3 here lately.

I have 50 rounds loaded with superformance and the 311041 to fire form some of my lake city brass with thicker necks.

Also have some bullets from the same batch as the last I shot loaded up with IMR 4350. Only thing I changed was just using a bushing neck sizer on the brass this time.

If the rain holds off I may be able to shoot tomorrow. We are supposed to get around 2” through today and tonight so hopefully the range won’t be flooded.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
Well I went out today and shot some more. I wasn’t able to duplicate the same accuracy as last time. Only changes were neck sizing the brass and leaving the bullets at .310”.
I tried some of the AM 31-165A’s fiver sent and they really improved my standard deviations. Only problem was they didn’t want to group for the most part. Had a couple of loads where I kept getting a wild flier.

Here’s some group pics. I’m not sure really what to try next.8EAA55B4-E7DE-400F-94CC-6DD6D0FBF82A.jpeg5C1D4649-10AD-4BC2-8752-A009DA044D9A.jpeg370C13C0-ACD3-48F7-B3A5-55F8D5C1E302.jpegFEF77FEA-6C08-4C52-98FC-76DB6F5E40E1.jpeg6D584978-B110-4BCB-817C-1ECEF6ADE4E5.jpegD0FC0C34-9BD3-4ACD-8B0A-AAC2039DA294.jpeg
 

Ian

Notorious member
+/- 2MOA at 25-2600 fps? From a production rifle? What's not to like?

Sure, there's a little room for improvement, but you're down to little changes at this point.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
I was just hoping that neck sizing would give me a big improvement. I think I’m going to go back to using .309” bullets. The groups were slightly better last time using .309” bullets.

Can’t figure out that 165A shooting 2 or 3 real tight then throwing the others.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Were you using Fiver's moly complex lube without cleaning first? IIRC there's some Al stearate in his formula that doesn't play well with Alox.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure what fiver used on the 165A’s they were lubed when he sent them.

I didn’t do any cleaning. Went straight from shooting the 308 hunting bullet lubed with 6-6-6-1 lube to the 165A.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I read the first post of the thread and saw the 6661. No Alox. It could still be a little bit of lube interaction, I've seen all kinds of weird things from barrel tar to sudden one-hole groups for about 5-10 rounds when shooting one kind of lube right after another. Tight groups with wild flyers can be a lot of things ranging from gas checks coming off to casting voids to lube viscosity and a lot of other things. At HV things are really strung up tight and it's sometimes difficult to pinpoint the cause of a backlash. There's not much room for metal to move on that 165A so make sure it's pre-sized to just barely scuff the freebore when chambered.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it easily could be the gas check on the one that went off to the far right.
I would disregard that one, if you look at the hole it is wonky shaped and it looks like it might have slipped a check.

that 47 gr area has IMO just about hit your practical limit, the group is staying round it might close up with another bump, it might just blow out completely.
if it's accuracy your looking for I would drop back to the 2400 area, and learn what the brass wants.
then use that information to move back up again.

oh.
let's just say that lube is thixotropic [the more you work it the softer it gets]
if it's on top of a soft lube it will generally push it out then settle down.
did you notice a small poof of smoke at the muzzle?
bet you did, that is what that lube does, no lube star other than some dirty carbon like streaking.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
I did notice the smoke when shooting the 165A.

I may try to drop it back some and see what that does. I do tend to prefer to have a full case of powder though.
 

Ian

Notorious member
There's not anything super-distinct in the patterns, I mean we can read in all sorts of stuff but even with all the targets shown it's not really enough to make a call. In a way that's a good thing, because nothing really looked particularly terrible, so I'd say you're doing well with 4350. I'll also say that I had to dump H4350 and try something else with my .308s because I never could get it to group or show me any kind of sign that it was happy, just 2-3" patterns. After switching and trying a couple things (including Superformance, which I never did get to even group) that's when H414 started talking to me. It would string this way, then that way, blow up big patterns, shrink down tight, all within 3-4 grains. You could read the barrel movement and bullet exit timing like a book. I think that it was showing me things that clearly because the 4350 had me checking and rechecking and tweaking all the other things so much that I pretty much had all the case/bullet/alloy/lube/seating depth/primer/neck tension/crimp issues and consistency (and concentricity) worked out by the time I got to it. Some powders just won't tell you what they like, and if they won't after you've refined your loading techniques some and tried some adjustments, it might be time to switch.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
the odd thing about that lube is when it's first made it settles out as hard as a rock.
it will bend a good metal fork in half and has a serious penetration resistance.
add a little heat and some pressure and it extrudes in a long perfect ribbon and retains that softness..
if you work it again it gets softer.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
I think I’ll try one more outing with 4350 and the bullets I recently cast and heat treated. Also going to try some of the xcb’s fiver sent.

If 4350 doesn’t work I’ll likely move to an alliance powder. Maybe reloader 17. I’m kind of a powder snob and like to stick with Alliant, probably because they are running about $8-10/ pound cheaper now.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
fan of 19 too.
it gets used all over the place here, doesn't meter worth beans, but it shoots nice.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
Will,

I know a certain person that would have a heart attack if he saw groups in the 2" range at near 2600 fps. in a 10 twist 30 cal. bbl.
I understand you want to take it as far as you can with better accuracy(so do i), but take a little time to pat yourself on the back for accomplishing whatn you have done so far.

One thing that stands out to me is that with both the xcb and the 165a bullet, is that after you passed 24 to mid 2500 fps., groups opened up with the 4350 UNTILL YOU HIT ABOUT 47 GR. ......In both cases groups started to shrink again.

As to what to do next? My opinion would be concentrate a bit in that load range with both bullets with full length and neck sized, and try leaving the flare on and taking the flare off the case...all with the same loads.
It would only take a few groups to check all that. Maybe load a few in 2/10 gr. increments past 47.

I did what your doing summer before last, and quit right at the spot you are now.
As i was hitting 2600 fps., groups were coming back in, but lol, hunting season was coming on.
I took my best load at 2450 fps., went hunting, and killed my deer that year with it.
I mean to get back to work with mine too this spring and summer.

HHHMMMM, i also noticed your getting a bit more speed from the 165a in the same load ranges.
Looks like another 30 cal. bullet i need to try out.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
OOPS, i looked at those targets too quickly. I thought they were all with the 165a bullet.
I see the other targets just say .308 hunting and one says .308 hunter.
Are those shot with the 30 hunter, or the xcb bullet?
 

Will

Well-Known Member
The targets today were shot with the mihec 308 hunting bullet and the AM 31-165A.

I think there is another node up around that 47.0gr charge. That’s why I shot 46.9 today to verify it. On my targets before there was a node around 46gr and 47gr.

I plan to work around the 46 and 47gr again on the next loads. I fire formed some lake city brass today with really thick necks. I plan to use this brass neck sized for my next try.

I am going to stick with it no matter how long it takes. I want 1 1/4” groups consistently at around 2500fps.

And even if I do fail I’ll get in lots of shooting. It’s a win win. And me and the howa are getting really aquatinted along the way too.

I’ll show you the reason why I enjoy it so much though. Today I also took out my brand new tikka T3X lite in 308. After getting the scope close at 50 I shot this group at 100yds using hornady sst’s I had loaded for the howa last year. That is the first group I ever shot with the rifle. It’s just not frustrating enough. Lol612CA42D-1ACC-4CE0-88AD-111543AF6278.jpeg
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
Oh snap, lol, yeah i'd say that's a tagged and bagged load for your Tikka right off the bat!

Thanks for getting me straightened out on the hunter bullet. I was getting myself confused there.
Well that one is trying to come back in around 47 gr. too, and the case is filling up with powder. Won't take too much more work to see if anything is left for that powder.

You obviously have good loading and bench shooting tecnique, so all this is helping me from where i left off with the .308.
Between you and Waco i hope to pick up on something else i need to try.