Mystery mould !

[RBHarter]

I know what I'll use it for . Very little information about this guy . Suggestions range from a paper patched/paper cartridge to a 465-500 NE .......
It's a 465451 .



That extra deep groove does lend itself to the tied paper cartridge idea . That would work out for a Chessipot I know of . It's only , data given from my search and known info , about .01+- fat and 100 gr heavy .....

That takes me to using that groove for lube and shooting it in the 45-70 . It's almost 500 gr , probably right there with my "pistol" alloy , being spec'd or at least the single reference calling it at 488 gr . (Font purple) I just feel like I need a 500 gr full power lever gun load for these whitetail and wild boars here . I'm told they are hard to get a bullet into . (End purple font) ........
Actually I'll probably load for around 1100 fps in the 45-70 and 45 Raptor . That should do the job on about any critter in the yard or on the porch in middle west edge Arkansas .

Any guesses as to it's true intent .

 

[Ian]

I notice it's a heeled design, of sorts. I'll SWAG it....Could be for paper cartridge, but could also work for a "short" cartridge in a long chamber, such as the various-length 45 BP rifle cartridges, to eliminate fouling rings in front of the case mouth. The idea of doing just that sort of thing with one, tapered band at chamber diameter with crimp groove under its skirt, has occurred to me to try in my NEF .45 Colt that was chambered with a bridge reamer.

 

[RBHarter]

I won't get to cast it for a while with the move and all .
An old post on CB said that it has stepped bands at about .0035 from .454 with a .465 above the big groove and 46? Unk below .

 

[RBHarter]

I ran across this one again and decided to ask Lyman about it .
I also found a 6 yr old post over there that was inconclusive ........... It did shed some light on the cast diminsions , which I don't have yet personally either . They seem to be .454 nose .456 , .460 , .456 & .456 . That seems like about the right step and the approximate trade off for WW or #2 to 20-1 or 40-1 to get up to .465 . It's just weird that there is almost .......there's nothing about this mould .

 

[fiver]

looks like a stop ring that would allow you to use 45-70 cases in a 45-90 chamber.

it could very well be for tied paper cartridges too, I remember lyman having a section on how to tie them in one of their books.
460 would have to fit the lands or go down a smooth bore of some sort fouled with powder residue.

 

[4060MAY]

50 cal sharps paper cartridge?

 

[RBHarter]

Maybe . .465 really isn't big enough for a 50 . Hopefully Lyman can help . It would be nice to get at least a " we got nothing but there were only 3 made " or something useful like that . If it will size .454-.456 I'd paper it for a 45-70 or shoot it as is in the Raptor seated all the way down to the top groove sized .454 . I guess if I go 20-40/1 it would run with BP as is .

Purple font . At last a use for Hornady 45-70 Leverevolution brass ! Unpurple .

Hmmmm , maybe just the ticket for those 1.8" case length restrictions for deer hunting .

 

[L Ross]

The direct quote from my Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets. Under the silhouette drawing of the bullet on page 164. 465451-"You name it, we've got it (.454 1st band, .465 2nd band, 447 two rear bands.)
That is all it says.

 

[RBHarter]

Thanks Ross . My books are still packed away . I was hoping the source would have replied to an email in a day or two ......
I've used a .448 for a paper patched 45 cal pistol barrel .
I will need to revisit the Chessipot paper cartridge instructions again and slug that barrel . If it remember it correctly , it has 2 wraps of paper for the powder sack around the base of the bullet secured there then a more durable paper wrapped around and over a top band in the original the paper powder sack , primer base card , etc was cased with a silk sack tied at the base but retained by the bullet to the muzzle that scrapped escaped powder fouling and contained the paper ash and primer cup . The remains of the cartridge we're just secondary ejecta dragged out of the barrle with the bullet . The undersized base sounds right for the application . The recommended bullet is one for a 43 Spanish but that would be under sized for the quad lap base and double lapped top half as I recall . The bullet is supposed to start in the barrel and jam on a land with enough hold to compress the BP but not break the powder sack . The 45 cal front band with the .465 second would surely do that probably more reliably and accurately than the paper sleeve on a straight shank .

I need my stuff out !!!!

 

[KHornet]

Agree it might be a sharps paper wrap blt.

Paul

 

[CZ93X62]

GMBTA.

That is all.

 

[RBHarter]

I got to cast this today with a little run of H&G #130 and the NTM Rapine 457-201 ....
Seen in the middle here the Rapine 457-201 is neither , kind of a let down the quick run yielded bullets at 457/8-460/1 and neatly at 249.6-250.4 and 252.4-254 .

The 456451 has a .446 nose ,.452 front , .466 2nd band , .448 on the bottom 2 . I looked at the Chessi today but didn't get it out ......maybe over the weekend .

The H&G #130 of course lived up to all expectations dropping 8 SWC at .453 and 195.8-196.2 . It was a bad day the hot plate crapped out in the move so the H&G wrinkled a little the first 10 pours . I can't imagine pouring over a 200 or so without a rest of some sort .

 

[fiver]

they used to hang those big H&G molds from the ceiling and have a spring at the top for weight help, and the ability to raise and lower them.

 

[RBHarter]

This one isn't drilled for that but I'd bet I can find a castle drilled bolt for the handles . If the handles or even one were about twice as long it would help . A bottom pour instead of a ladle probably wouldn't hurt anything either . It's sure nice to pour 25 times and have 200 bullets .