Need Some Help
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462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Though I said this project would be put on hold till we return from our road trip, it has kept gnawing at me, so I got back to it.
First, removing the extractor didn't make any difference.
Next, per Ian’s suggestion, I dabbed a bit beeswax between the neck/shoulder area, and it smeared a lot. I tried ever decreasing dabs, but the smear was always larger than the dab. No headspace?
99% of my press usage is with the Lee 4-hole turret, with it’s dead stop design. However, Allen’s mention of adjusting the full length die so the press cams over, was the nudge for me to try it with the RCBS Jr 3. I gradually turned the die in till a case could be chambered with just the slightest bit of resistance increase, over that required when closing the bolt on an empty chamber. A wee dab of beeswax showed only a very, very slight smear.
Ah, ha, success!
That lasted till I turned the die in the next little bit and stuck a case. Cleared that fiasco, backed out the die a bit, but not too far enough and stuck another case. Fixed that and called it quits . . .
Never experiencing this problem before, it seems to me that some brand of shoulder set-back die is needed. (Isn't that what you mentioned, Ian?) If that is correct (please say so if it’s not), I will gladly entertain suggestions.
First, removing the extractor didn't make any difference.
Next, per Ian’s suggestion, I dabbed a bit beeswax between the neck/shoulder area, and it smeared a lot. I tried ever decreasing dabs, but the smear was always larger than the dab. No headspace?
99% of my press usage is with the Lee 4-hole turret, with it’s dead stop design. However, Allen’s mention of adjusting the full length die so the press cams over, was the nudge for me to try it with the RCBS Jr 3. I gradually turned the die in till a case could be chambered with just the slightest bit of resistance increase, over that required when closing the bolt on an empty chamber. A wee dab of beeswax showed only a very, very slight smear.
Ah, ha, success!
That lasted till I turned the die in the next little bit and stuck a case. Cleared that fiasco, backed out the die a bit, but not too far enough and stuck another case. Fixed that and called it quits . . .
Never experiencing this problem before, it seems to me that some brand of shoulder set-back die is needed. (Isn't that what you mentioned, Ian?) If that is correct (please say so if it’s not), I will gladly entertain suggestions.
Ian
Notorious member
I embedded a link to a Forster shoulder bump die a few posts up. You will need to choose and buy neck bushings to go with it to get the correct tension with J-bullets and possibly cast bullets.
If you stuck a case....you have a case lube problem, not a problem with trying to size the case too much.
Also, as I mentioned previously, if you keep sizing and test-fitting and sizing and test-fitting with the same case you won't get an accurate die setting established. The next fired case you run through there won't be sized as far back as the one you worked down in several stages because the brass springs back more the first time. In other words, you can resize a case twice at the same setting and the second time the datum will be shorter by as much as .002-3", so do your final verification in one pass with a case from your "fired" collection.
Something else to investigate is how loose a sized case is in your chamber. Plunk one in there with the bolt out and wiggle it around in the chamber with your pinkie finger. If you feel more than the slightest movement, your sizing die may be squeezing the case body more than needed or wanted and a shoulder bump die is definitely in order. You can also compare fired to resized measurements at both ends and the middle of the body section of a fired and a resized the case to get an actual number that represents the amount being sized.
If your FL die isn't giving you enough headspace, the top of the shellholder can be block-sanded a couple thousandtha to compensate. How to tell? Cut a circle of cellophane tape and stick it on the degreased head of a resized case. If you can't chamber the case with the tape on it fairly easily (there should be some resistance but the tape shouldn't be crushed and smeared down to just the glue), then you don't have enough headspace for your jax loads. If the FL die won't allow that, AND ths die is NOT sizing the body excessively for YOUR chamber, sand the shell holder a thousandth and try again.
If you stuck a case....you have a case lube problem, not a problem with trying to size the case too much.
Also, as I mentioned previously, if you keep sizing and test-fitting and sizing and test-fitting with the same case you won't get an accurate die setting established. The next fired case you run through there won't be sized as far back as the one you worked down in several stages because the brass springs back more the first time. In other words, you can resize a case twice at the same setting and the second time the datum will be shorter by as much as .002-3", so do your final verification in one pass with a case from your "fired" collection.
Something else to investigate is how loose a sized case is in your chamber. Plunk one in there with the bolt out and wiggle it around in the chamber with your pinkie finger. If you feel more than the slightest movement, your sizing die may be squeezing the case body more than needed or wanted and a shoulder bump die is definitely in order. You can also compare fired to resized measurements at both ends and the middle of the body section of a fired and a resized the case to get an actual number that represents the amount being sized.
If your FL die isn't giving you enough headspace, the top of the shellholder can be block-sanded a couple thousandtha to compensate. How to tell? Cut a circle of cellophane tape and stick it on the degreased head of a resized case. If you can't chamber the case with the tape on it fairly easily (there should be some resistance but the tape shouldn't be crushed and smeared down to just the glue), then you don't have enough headspace for your jax loads. If the FL die won't allow that, AND ths die is NOT sizing the body excessively for YOUR chamber, sand the shell holder a thousandth and try again.
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Success!
But first, I need to address some previous posts.
Popper: A bent paperclip ddi not indicate any future head separation.
Ian: During the camming over testing, each time the die was adjusted a fresh case was sized.
As to the two stuck cases, I just may have been light with the lube, but didn't think so at the time.
Sorry, Ian, I missed the Forster die link.
I located a shell holder that had been sacrificed for another project, and went at it with crocus cloth, incrementally taking it down till a case chambered with no more effort than closing the bolt on an empty chamber. In round numbers, it needed to be shortened .005". (A different case was used for each test.) As part of the final testing, the slightest dab of beeswax was not smeared, nor did a Scotch taped case require but the slightest bit of extra effort, to close the bolt.
The case on the left is after, the one on the right is before.
I now have a dedicated 03A3 shell holder. As time permits -- a Winter project? -- I will have to pull down 400 jacketed rounds and re-size the cases.
I sincerely thank everyone who took the time to reply and offer suggestions. This was a unique problem, for me, and I learned a lot.
Michael
But first, I need to address some previous posts.
Popper: A bent paperclip ddi not indicate any future head separation.
Ian: During the camming over testing, each time the die was adjusted a fresh case was sized.
As to the two stuck cases, I just may have been light with the lube, but didn't think so at the time.
Sorry, Ian, I missed the Forster die link.
I located a shell holder that had been sacrificed for another project, and went at it with crocus cloth, incrementally taking it down till a case chambered with no more effort than closing the bolt on an empty chamber. In round numbers, it needed to be shortened .005". (A different case was used for each test.) As part of the final testing, the slightest dab of beeswax was not smeared, nor did a Scotch taped case require but the slightest bit of extra effort, to close the bolt.
The case on the left is after, the one on the right is before.
I now have a dedicated 03A3 shell holder. As time permits -- a Winter project? -- I will have to pull down 400 jacketed rounds and re-size the cases.
I sincerely thank everyone who took the time to reply and offer suggestions. This was a unique problem, for me, and I learned a lot.
Michael
fiver
Well-Known Member
well I was gonna suggest you look at the neck shoulder junction, but it looks like you already did.
BTW the bump of the shoulder basically fixes the same thing.
but you can get the trouble from the button coming back out of the case as well as not quite sizing that area down far enough.
BTW the bump of the shoulder basically fixes the same thing.
but you can get the trouble from the button coming back out of the case as well as not quite sizing that area down far enough.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
----->Guilty, as charged.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I'm not going to count shell holders but I know there are 3 + for 9/222/223 , 06'/308/45ACP , and 38/357 plus the assorted alternate holders I think I have 4-5 to accommodate 6.8/32 Rem/×39/40 , no those don't really interchange 100% but they have been known to borrow/lend a 38/357 holder .