New 230 TC mold
- Thread starter Ole_270
- Start date
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
It took us a while to figure it out, though, since I had never seen these modern, extremely long taper
"Taper crimp dies", which are really more of a "flare removal die" than any kind of a crimping die.
We were using the same term -'taper crimp die - and each looking at our dies and the results (which
were massively different) and it was pretty confusing for a while.
Bill
"Taper crimp dies", which are really more of a "flare removal die" than any kind of a crimping die.
We were using the same term -'taper crimp die - and each looking at our dies and the results (which
were massively different) and it was pretty confusing for a while.
Bill
Ian
Notorious member
Yep. I thought Bill was from another galaxy when he told me to taper crimp to .465-6". I crunched a dummy round down that far with my Redding die just to show him almost the while length of the bullet was crushed and there was no way it would work. At the time I was roll-crimping all my .45 ACP to about .467" in an ancient RCBS AR die. He sent me the Lee die and what a difference it made with its much more abrupt taper.
I think we all learned a lot, even more than the angles of taper-crimp dies: Measure stuff and verify everything, assume nothing. This is why I'm so adamant about using upset slugs to measure chambers, throats, or anything else like that. WQuiles and I have identical LR-308 uppers from the same company bought a few months apart and his will not chamber the bullets that fit mine with a LOT of room to spare at the same overall length. Here we have two similar powder charges and bullets with drastically different velocity readings, and I think we've explored pretty well some of the little things which add up to make things at my house and anyone else's very different when at first blush they shouldn't be.
I think we all learned a lot, even more than the angles of taper-crimp dies: Measure stuff and verify everything, assume nothing. This is why I'm so adamant about using upset slugs to measure chambers, throats, or anything else like that. WQuiles and I have identical LR-308 uppers from the same company bought a few months apart and his will not chamber the bullets that fit mine with a LOT of room to spare at the same overall length. Here we have two similar powder charges and bullets with drastically different velocity readings, and I think we've explored pretty well some of the little things which add up to make things at my house and anyone else's very different when at first blush they shouldn't be.
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OK guys, I did a bit of calculating and discovered that a 5° angle is about right.
Got a die made up for Ole 270 tonight.
Starting with one of Keith’s blanks it took 15 min or so. Drill 1.5” in with a T drill. Set compound to 5° and bore away. Keep boring until a .468 pin goes in roughly 1/2”. Light polish, stamp die to mark it and done.
Easy to see how much faster the taper is compared to a “normal” taper crimp
Got a die made up for Ole 270 tonight.
Starting with one of Keith’s blanks it took 15 min or so. Drill 1.5” in with a T drill. Set compound to 5° and bore away. Keep boring until a .468 pin goes in roughly 1/2”. Light polish, stamp die to mark it and done.
Easy to see how much faster the taper is compared to a “normal” taper crimp
Ian
Notorious member
They are also great relievers if money you don't have due to their voracious appetite for accessories and tooling.
Machining as a hobby is just like bullet casting: you'll never save a dime doing it but you'll get to play ten times more for the same dollar and get to do it exactly your way, never again depending on others for your end product.
Machining as a hobby is just like bullet casting: you'll never save a dime doing it but you'll get to play ten times more for the same dollar and get to do it exactly your way, never again depending on others for your end product.
Last place I worked had a Sharp mill in the tooling dept. Sort of an oversized knee mill, 10x54 if I remember right. Box ways, DRO, 40 taper spindle instead of the R-8. I got to play with it a few times making special jaws for 6" Kurt vises and fixture plates for the big Makinos. Smooth as glass till the boss's son ruined the spindle showing us all how smart he was.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
My RCBS 9mm and 45 ACP die sets are OLD--1981 and 1979 respectively. Their OEM seating dies have a small roll-crimping shoulder, and for close to 15 years I made great jacketed and cast bullet ammo in both calibers. In the mid-1990s the Magic Of Taper Crimping descended upon the world of reloading, and life got a lot more complicated. The 2 T/C-only dies I do have perform good work, but no better than the OEM seater die does. The RCBS 40/10 die set only has a taper-crimp/seater die, which only gets used to seat bullets. Life would be lots simpler if RCBS made autopistol dies like they did in the late 1970s. If people weren't allergic to making small adjustments to the tools they already have, a lot of the whatzis inventions that plague modern man would never have drawn breath.
It must be time for bed--I am starting to sound like my grandfather.
It must be time for bed--I am starting to sound like my grandfather.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Agreed that my old 1981 RCBS TC that came with the .45 ACP die set is perfect. I just didn't know that they
had messed it up (oh, wait - IMPROVED IT) later, until we had this long discussion between Brad, Ian and me.
They both had super long taper "taper crimp" dies which are really just flare remover dies. We were all confused
because each knew the other was not telling untruths......but what one said didn't work for the other, and vice
versa. VERY strange until we started talking in exact details of the inside shape of the dies....which had nothing at
all in common, well other than being circular.
had messed it up (oh, wait - IMPROVED IT) later, until we had this long discussion between Brad, Ian and me.
They both had super long taper "taper crimp" dies which are really just flare remover dies. We were all confused
because each knew the other was not telling untruths......but what one said didn't work for the other, and vice
versa. VERY strange until we started talking in exact details of the inside shape of the dies....which had nothing at
all in common, well other than being circular.
It often leads to a garage filled with a lathe and mill. Just sayin....
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I have proven to myself sufficiently that the 40/10 Tungsten Carbide sizer die does a creditable job of taper-crimping. My next mission is to find a steel sizer in 40/10 that sizes to a proper diameter instead of .003"-.004" under SAAMI specs. I have had to go the steel sizer route in 44 Mag and 45 Colt for this reason. Once a proper-sized 40/10 size die is found, the current example will get its guts removed permanently and will be relegated to taper-crimping assignments. COKE-BOTTLED CARTRIDGE BRASS IS AN ABOMINATION.
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358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
Al- have you tried sizing your brass with a LEE Factory Crimp die with the innards removed? The carbide insert is intended to only reduce case OD to factory "finished" specs. The cases wouldn't be tapered, but they would get sized down a lot less that carbide sizing dies do.
Ian
Notorious member
Redding has the solution to this age-old problem....IF you have the cabbage: https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/176-dual-ring-carbide-sizing-die-sets
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
The older RCBS .45 ACP taper crimp dies, from 70s and 80s (they have the last two digits of the year
stamped on the die next to the caliber designation) are perfect. The recent (probably still current) PLAIN
old Lee .45 ACP taper crimp die is also good. The Factory Crimp with the carbide resizer ring risks oversizing
your bullet, a problem reported by many. The Redding and Hornady current "taper crimp dies" are a
smooth, maybe 1 deg continuous taper end to end. basically will push the flare back straight and nothing
much else. Not ideal, in fact, IMO, to be avoided.
Ask Ian and Brad what they think....they own them and have the short taper type, too. I THINK they both
use the short taper now, but won't speak for them.
Used RCBS tc dies pop up regularly on eBay, and usually they show the markings in a photo of the item.
This one was made in 1981, here is what it looks like inside.
Bill
stamped on the die next to the caliber designation) are perfect. The recent (probably still current) PLAIN
old Lee .45 ACP taper crimp die is also good. The Factory Crimp with the carbide resizer ring risks oversizing
your bullet, a problem reported by many. The Redding and Hornady current "taper crimp dies" are a
smooth, maybe 1 deg continuous taper end to end. basically will push the flare back straight and nothing
much else. Not ideal, in fact, IMO, to be avoided.
Ask Ian and Brad what they think....they own them and have the short taper type, too. I THINK they both
use the short taper now, but won't speak for them.
Used RCBS tc dies pop up regularly on eBay, and usually they show the markings in a photo of the item.
This one was made in 1981, here is what it looks like inside.
Bill
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