Paul Gauthier
Active Member
Now I see what you mean. Do you have a mill?
New LEE 2C handle Pin Replacement?
- Thread starter Jeff H
- Start date
I do not.
I am NOT a machinist, but I do have a wood shop and some kind of weird disorder which compels me to do things I'm not supposed to be able to do. I've modified and even made Weaver-style bases with my table saw. Everything takes me a long time because it takes a while to devise a plan using the wrong tools, I get interrupted a lot and I often have to spend time backing out of and recovering from a "wrong turn." I have to stop, put it all aside and ponder the best way to correct some form of impeninding damage before it's irreparable. I know it's not practical, but it would be if the chips were really down. FInding ways to do things with limited resources is a good exercise for the brain and entertaining. Not tryingto prove a point - I just have fun with it. OK, and I can't afford a mill and lathe.
I've learned a few things I do not like about these new moulds and will share at some point. Most here probably know what these things are already but maybe someone will benefit from it, in fact, the one reason it's best to do this on a lathe (don't have that either) is that these block halves are misaligned on all sides of the outside except the tops and it's hard to get a reference point for plum/level/square. I proceeded with the assumption (guess) that at minimum, the top plane of the halves would be perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the cavity. Overall, they are nice - not complaining, but I have to get used to a few new things when trying to modify them.
I used roll pins. I was in town and near an ACE Hardware So I got some 5/32"x3/4" roll pins ($.33/each), a new 5/32" twist drill and another #22 just in case. The blind holes were within a few thousandths of the top of the mould halves, so I made them through-holes so I could remove them if I ever had to. I use Crisco as a lube when drilling/tapping aluminum. I had to clearance the holes in the handles and I forget which drill, but I only made the a couple thousandths bigger than 3/32" (mine measured .154") and I put a light, light coat of never-seize on the pins to drive them in because I was concerned about deforming the "flange" the bottom hole goes through. The mould is less "floppy" now, but there's some kind of goo in the handle hinge that doesn't just wash out but it loosens up as the mould heats up. 5/32" roll pins and the appropriate-sized holes are about as big as I'd want to drill on what littel material there is on the blocks and the handle tongs.
I tried to cast a few yesterday, but there's some kind of tenacious oil in them now and I had to stop to do a more thorough than usual cleaning. My bases came out .313" by .314" and they weighed 317.5 grains even with the wrinkles. The rest of the bullet was .309" but you'd not know it was that different just looking. "Alloy" is a mystery to me but I'd almost put money on it being assayed as early nineties wheel weights with a little tin. They glide through a .309" LEE sizer without developing a flash on the base. I don't know if I will get to use the clean(er) mould today because there's a book sale at the library, so the Missus bribed me to go to the library to look for knitting books by reminding me that Harbor Freight just opened in town too. Not a bad way to be manipulated.
Sorry for the verbosity, but a lot happens between times I can sit at the computer.
Thanks, Ian. That part is fixed and I like the way the roll pins keep the blocks from flopping around. May or may not take them off the next one but at least I have a attaching means I'm pleased with.
I was hoping to cast some good bullets with it today, but even with the thorough and vigorous re-cleaning last night, still throwing wrinkled bullets no matter the mould or alloy temp. The alloy in the pot and the setpoint on the PID were going gang-busters on the last pair of 2C LEEs I was using late winter. Thinking I may have a venting issue - on both moulds - with two different types of vent lines. Suspicious about that, so maybe it's just whatever tenacious goo that was put on them. Never had one this hard to clean though, so suspect vent lines. Real brake cleaner, naptha, denatured alcohol, boiling water, Dawn, Bar Keeper's Friend,....
So, onto the back burner until I get some time again. Since I have to wait now, I may remove the blocks from both moulds and leave them soaking in something until then.
Paul Gauthier
Active Member
Roll pins, wish I had thought of that. Well done.
Ian
Notorious member
Wave a Bic at the cavities, if that don't fix it right away you have problems other than contamination. I usually preheat the Lees like they owe me something and take 6-8 seconds for the sprue to freeze enough to cut, then let it cool off to the oroper temp over the course of a few pours.
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Yeah, me too! It was Fiver's idea.
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And, I was inspired by Ben to attempt removing the GC shank myself. Didn't come up with that on my own either.
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Ian, I'm guessing you mean to burn off whatever it is in the cavities v. "smoking?" I hadn't tried that but the propane torch was whispering in my ear the whole time. I pre-heated the mould to 400F, had the alloy at 750F,.... and I was casting quickly in a 2C to see if some "encouragement" might change its ways. I reached a point where the bullets started to fail to fill out in the middle, which is something I've only ever accomplished with LEE moulds. There, I stopped to think before I messed up a mould I had some time invested in. I let it cool to normal casting temps a few times to run chickens out of the garage. I have run three or four cycles of ambient to full heat as well. Started today with a bone-dry mould, not even sprue-plate or pin lube.
I will try to sneak in and try the flame as you suggest tomorrow. This evening, I noticed on the other one (I bought two of the same mould from the same guy) that there was some brown residue at the bottom of the faces of the cooled mould. I wiped it with my finger and it smeared like grease. Whatever it is, it survived one heck of a thorough cleaning and it didn't come out of the sprue plate screw hole because I remove those for the initial cleaning. There's something in there and what I've tried so far hasn't gotten it all out. I can usually clean/prep an aluminum mould, preheat and start casting with it. I'm going to ask the fella I got them from what he put on them when he returns from a trip out of town. Both had on them what I took for mineral oil when I unwrapped them but that's not hard to get off.
Fiver, I didn't quit make it cry but meant to let it know I was serious. Over the years, LEE taught me that occasionally, making one of theirs cry is worth a shot before chucking it. Not quite there yet. Didn't try smoking the cavities. Last time I tried that (or mould release) was for "sticky" cavities twenty five years ago and neither helped me. Can't hurt to try it though. As I have time now. May have a functional mould by December.
One further hint is that where I removed metal - no wrinkles. Hmmmm.
I love the roll pin fix though. Even if this mould doesn't make it, I learned a new trick for the new blocks. I bought extra roll pins that size.
I will try to sneak in and try the flame as you suggest tomorrow. This evening, I noticed on the other one (I bought two of the same mould from the same guy) that there was some brown residue at the bottom of the faces of the cooled mould. I wiped it with my finger and it smeared like grease. Whatever it is, it survived one heck of a thorough cleaning and it didn't come out of the sprue plate screw hole because I remove those for the initial cleaning. There's something in there and what I've tried so far hasn't gotten it all out. I can usually clean/prep an aluminum mould, preheat and start casting with it. I'm going to ask the fella I got them from what he put on them when he returns from a trip out of town. Both had on them what I took for mineral oil when I unwrapped them but that's not hard to get off.
Fiver, I didn't quit make it cry but meant to let it know I was serious. Over the years, LEE taught me that occasionally, making one of theirs cry is worth a shot before chucking it. Not quite there yet. Didn't try smoking the cavities. Last time I tried that (or mould release) was for "sticky" cavities twenty five years ago and neither helped me. Can't hurt to try it though. As I have time now. May have a functional mould by December.
One further hint is that where I removed metal - no wrinkles. Hmmmm.
I love the roll pin fix though. Even if this mould doesn't make it, I learned a new trick for the new blocks. I bought extra roll pins that size.
OK, I mowed like my butt was on fire to get time to mess with this and then the clothes dryer and its wonderful "technology" decided to get stupid on me, so I barely had time to do anything useful with this, but it's getting there.
Played a flame over the mould faces and into the cavities - some sort of wetness appeared on the surfaces other than water as a byproduct of combustion. I wiped it off and did it again. Thanks, Ian.
Slight improvement on the wrinkles.
Cleaned again when I discovered a can of acetone.
Even better, but still unacceptable.
OK, I planned on lapping this mould, so why not? I have some ugly bullets with extra "lube grooves" running helter-skelter (the wrinkles), so I lapped it, washed with brake cleaner (the good stuff) and another wipe with the acetone.
Much better, but not perfect. Looks like this is just going to be one of those moulds that resists until it doesn't.
Cast up a handful, playing with heat. This mould likes less heat on the mould and more on the alloy than my other LEE 2Cs. Fine. I'll accommodate.
The attached pic is two unsized and two sized - I think one each from the two cavities. I kept them separate to do more measuring later but I wanted to get a photo posted for those who have been kind enough not to remind me of the no pics - didn't happen rule.
And I forgot to shoot one of the pins! OK - later. The reamer line is barely visible - a couple thousandths proud, but it is concentric. I have to look at the sprue mark to tell which bullet came from which cavity unless I see them fall out of the mould. Yes, I was very, very careful, but I was very, very lucky too. Took a chance, mitigated potential disasters as much as practicable and, here it it. Wonder if it will shoot now?
Appreciate all the help and the ride along for the company. I think this one will be OK. Now to whip its brother into shape and HP one of those cavities with the GC shank left intact.
Played a flame over the mould faces and into the cavities - some sort of wetness appeared on the surfaces other than water as a byproduct of combustion. I wiped it off and did it again. Thanks, Ian.
Slight improvement on the wrinkles.
Cleaned again when I discovered a can of acetone.
Even better, but still unacceptable.
OK, I planned on lapping this mould, so why not? I have some ugly bullets with extra "lube grooves" running helter-skelter (the wrinkles), so I lapped it, washed with brake cleaner (the good stuff) and another wipe with the acetone.
Much better, but not perfect. Looks like this is just going to be one of those moulds that resists until it doesn't.
Cast up a handful, playing with heat. This mould likes less heat on the mould and more on the alloy than my other LEE 2Cs. Fine. I'll accommodate.
The attached pic is two unsized and two sized - I think one each from the two cavities. I kept them separate to do more measuring later but I wanted to get a photo posted for those who have been kind enough not to remind me of the no pics - didn't happen rule.
And I forgot to shoot one of the pins! OK - later. The reamer line is barely visible - a couple thousandths proud, but it is concentric. I have to look at the sprue mark to tell which bullet came from which cavity unless I see them fall out of the mould. Yes, I was very, very careful, but I was very, very lucky too. Took a chance, mitigated potential disasters as much as practicable and, here it it. Wonder if it will shoot now?
Appreciate all the help and the ride along for the company. I think this one will be OK. Now to whip its brother into shape and HP one of those cavities with the GC shank left intact.
Ian
Notorious member
Wow, that's got to be the most stubborn Lee mould ever. I'd be thinking really hard about filing some new vent lines to intersect the corners of the driving bands and then polishing it out with some baking soda and water. Or spending 20 bucks on the 120 2R plain base mould. You're definitely as stubborn as I am!
fiver
Well-Known Member
meh.
I'd shoot them.
heat seems to draw whatever it is out, I'd heat [cast some] and wipe and heat and wipe, it can't go on forever.
or maybe it can,, I have a 9mm Makarov mold I been picking at since about 95'.
probably be finished with it by now but I don't have a Makarov.
I'd shoot them.
heat seems to draw whatever it is out, I'd heat [cast some] and wipe and heat and wipe, it can't go on forever.
or maybe it can,, I have a 9mm Makarov mold I been picking at since about 95'.
probably be finished with it by now but I don't have a Makarov.
Yes, sir, I think I will be doing just that. They are presently just a notch above embarrassing, and I believe "it" will cook out eventually.
I don't mind shooting ugly bullets that shoot well, but I haven't tried these yet. Shooting ugly bullets that don't shoot well tends to draw unwanted attention from fellas who've read a lot of articles about casting and shooting cast. I may not be the sharpest crayon in the box, but there's still a whole lot of folks out there that make me feel pretty smart sometimes.
The Makarov mould: In other words, you need a Makarov. I have a 1C Ideal that casts a beautiful .320-somthin', that weighs 170-somthin' grains and I feel pressure to add a 32-somthin' to my battery just because of that.
Photos of the roll pins.
Sorry for the delay and very, very sorry for the gore in the shot of the top of the mould. This is (was) a new mould and I did that to the top of it in spite of knowing better and having taken steps to mitigate such horror. No burrs and nothing was stuck to the sprue plate. All I can figure is that I opened the mould too soon once and got some early-open crumbs of almost solidified alloy between the mould top and sprue plate. I open the sprue plate with a gloved hand, turn the mould upside down to dump the sprue into my gloved hand, dump the bullets and set the mould on a wooden block to cool a bit - upside down. I don't turn it right side up until I pick it up and I close the sprue plate as I do that. I don't see the top of the mould unless I look for base fill-out, which wasn't an issue. I hate looking at this, let alone posting it, but there it is.
Sorry for the delay and very, very sorry for the gore in the shot of the top of the mould. This is (was) a new mould and I did that to the top of it in spite of knowing better and having taken steps to mitigate such horror. No burrs and nothing was stuck to the sprue plate. All I can figure is that I opened the mould too soon once and got some early-open crumbs of almost solidified alloy between the mould top and sprue plate. I open the sprue plate with a gloved hand, turn the mould upside down to dump the sprue into my gloved hand, dump the bullets and set the mould on a wooden block to cool a bit - upside down. I don't turn it right side up until I pick it up and I close the sprue plate as I do that. I don't see the top of the mould unless I look for base fill-out, which wasn't an issue. I hate looking at this, let alone posting it, but there it is.
Agreed, and I have used synthetic 2-cycle oil on sprue plates to some degree of improvement, but have been experimenting with a piece of welder's soapstone rubbed onto the sprue plate, then wiped off, leaving no loose dust. nothing sticks and no galling. That's what I was using on this one and why I was surprised that I did that to the mould. First time it's failed me.
Still using 2-cycle on the alignment pins but ran this one dry to ferret out the contamination bug.
The vent lines are weird, like they tried to copy the custom makers and only achieved the aesthetic, because none of the seemingly large lines really intersect with the cavities. The other mould uses the same "new" blocks but has even weirder vent lines - if you can call them that. That one went onto the shelf anyway until I get time again. I have a 6C 225-55 (looks like the RCBS) that I got when it came out and zero issues of any sort since day-one.
Fiver, I have resisted using anti-sieze on my moulds, but have wondered if it would work on sprue plate pivots. I have not tried it because if it didn't work, I'd use up casting time cleaning it off. I've got at least a couple pounds of it smeared on anything I've removed/replaced on a couple Cherokees though.
I'm curious how you're using it - pivot? bottom of the sprue plate? The soapstone's working nicely but that was a wild hare experiment and someone will come along and tell me how bad it is now that I've admitted using it. I hope not, but it's working too well (most times) - too good to be true sort of thing. Dang it! I wish I hadn't brought that up because now I don't want to know.