New moulds.....again!

Ian

Notorious member
Yep. It's cold in Norway. And it's winter. And that's a nice, easy load. And that bullet holds a LOT of lube. Those groups are respectable but it seems like something's fighting him and it reminded me of the partial lube jettison problems I've had with so many different stiff, adhesive lubes in cold weather. I would also have expected the Barlow shape to shoot better from the .308 than the '06 due to throat shape.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Thanks! I do have those ingredients on hand, and will absolutely give them a try. I don’t have many bullets, though- only the «keepers» from the mould break-in, and they are already lubed with my standard lube. Casting is a bit challenging these days, there is a bit of snow in my casting area. But I usually manage to cast some bullets during the winter, then I’ll try the vaseline/BW/PW.

Let’s see if I follow your reasoning:
The bullet might be unbalanced by uncoordinated lube release from the huge groove. The PW liquifies under pressure, gives better flow characteristics and more consistent «lube departure» at the muzzle.
 

Ian

Notorious member
That's my logic. I don't know if it will hold true for you or if it is even an issue, but if the lube isn't happy, it can make a 1" group into a 2" group really fast.

Back story is the first lube I made for myself was Felix lube and it was wonderful stuff that allowed for my best groups ever at the time....until one day I was shooting some groups at 40⁰F (much cooler than I normally ever shoot targets) and the groups were nearly double the normal size. I looked closely at the targets and saw little chunks of lube stuck to the paper still bearing the form of the grooves. So I quickly re-melted some of the lube, thinned it with Vaseline and had another go. Problem solved and no more lube "boogers" on the target. Same thing happened sometime later when testing Carnauba Red at about the same temperature, only difference is I thinned the CR with automatic transmission fluid to get it to flow in the cold.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Here's a more recent example of lube being a problem. This from my unleaded bullet tests, first group ever, at 50 yards. LBT Blue soft version. Cold bore shot always goes low and right with this lube/rifle/bullet combination and then walks into a group. Ten minutes later when the barrel cools, it repeats. Anyway, I zoomed in on the first hole and you can see the blue/green soeck right below the hole, so the bullet was still shucking lube off within a few feet of 50 yards downrange. Also note it was a flyer. Ignore the elliptical hole, that was a feature of the target hanging freely and curling back on the bottom because it was stored in a tube.

20191125_215822_20191222010705650.jpg

I'm not claiming that the lube caused this particular flyer by creating a balance problem in flight, but rather by inconsistencies in bore friction was the issue as the barrel warmed. The lube obviously wasn't going to a liquid state inside the rifle or suppressor. Regardless, lube coming off of a .22-caliber bullet in flight that far downrange can still cause problems at 170,000 rpm.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Thanks!
That's a problem with the electronic targets; some info is lost. But I've got to work with what I've got.
Will try your lube suggestion, when I get an opportunity to make more bullets :)
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I only had to add like 10% paraffin to get the flow I wanted.
but,,,,, I'm also using [40%] soy wax in the mix to replace the paraffin.
I am also using a small amount of ATF it has benefits in the hot and cold.

anyway the paraffin was used to make the lube start flowing just a bit sooner, once it got going the other waxes followed suit and allowed the oils to do their job.
I was trying to balance the when it got flowing with the where the bullet was at the time.
in the throat was not where I wanted it, the muzzle was.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
The MP «Sledgehammer» works reasonably well in my S&L 30-06, with 20 grs N110. Nothing crazy, but very consistent, just sub- 2MOA at 100m. 1840fps. Not to bad for a little handgun bullet, I think.

7EF6D08E-E980-40CE-8891-2A13A13AA74F.jpeg

I have cast some more bullets, and have the ingredients to make the lube Ian suggested. But I have also had a little break-through in PC- technique. Now, I PC bullets faster, and get better results than before. So sadly, Ians lube suggestion has to wait a little, I need to shoot these...

071332AE-D3DB-4217-8A40-77C92D013757.jpeg
 

Ian

Notorious member
If you get those going with PC, and I bet you will, you'll probably quit using traditional lube altogether. Don't worry, you're not hurting my feelings at all. :)

Do you mind sharing your "breakthrough"? Those look really good.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
1) I found that the top layer of the powders I had been using was no good. I have probably, at some point, left the lid not completely closed and it has absorbed some moisture. So, I dig a little deeper in the powder container.

2) I got two new colors (kawasaki green and mirror red), they work very good.

3) One of the powders I have been using is just not as good as the others, no matter what I do (black, gloss)

4) shake harder (got that from you). After coating the first batch, I only have to shake a few seconds. Marked difference in first application, and subsequent batches.

5) New containers. Now, I use a small container and coat relatively few (10) bullets at a time.

So, just some small details- but it made a lot of difference to me. I will probably shoot a lot more colorful bullets in the future.
My new colors are maybe a bit...garish. But I don’t care, as long as they work

3EF49CF8-0923-4AAC-B2F2-3ECC3BF33C15.jpeg
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
sometimes the gloss colors put on a lot more gloss than color so it looks like they are splotchy or not even covered.
it's just the gloss sticking and not the color pigments.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
I didn’t know.... maybe the powder is better than I thought. Anyway, now I have powder paint enough for like a million bullets :)

Should last a while. My plan is to use the problematic powder for the hydro-dip technique that Waco brought to my attention. I am preparing to load cast bullets for my brother’s marlin 30-30. It seems to have no throat, and some otherwise appropriate bullets can’t be used with PC on the nose. It will be a nice opportunity to test the concept.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Marlins have a throat it's just on the other side of that big blob of non throat in front of the chamber.

the ranch dog molds are designed with that extra part on the nose to fit across that cavern.
when I started working with my 375 I tried all sorts of little tricks like using stretched 38-55 cases, buffers, fillers and buffers, seating depth.
I finally went to a more parallel sided bullet with some minimal taper to the nose and stretched out the OAL as far as I could go to reach across the gap.

after Talking to Michael about things some he used my measurements when he drew up his 37 cal Ranch Dog mold.
but he confirmed what I was seeing as normal marlin procedure.
think about them like they have a weatherby free bore cut in there [only more parallel and shorter] you'll see why the RD-30-165 has that nose shape it has.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I am preparing to load cast bullets for my brother’s marlin 30-30. It seems to have no throat, and some otherwise appropriate bullets can’t be used with PC on the nose. It will be a nice opportunity to test the concept.

Hhmmm . . . No throat. Here's a pic of my Win 94 30-30 when I first got it. Picture taken through my borescope @ 25X. I am the 3rd owner and the first two couldn't get it to shoot even jacketed. This is the first thing the bullet saw as it started to move. Trimmed brass just fit with the bolt closed. Leading is an understatement. 15 minutes with a throating reamer and now it's a fine shooter.

DSCN1844-1.JPG
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
nope no problem there...LOL

that's almost as bad as the throatish looking thing Brad had in his CZ.
that one threw me pretty bad since we both had the same gun same mold same alloy same load and I was able to do whatever I wanted up and down the ladder and he couldn't even use my most minimal loads without leading issues and poor accuracy.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
It left the factory without a throat ever having been cut in it. First two owners didn't catch it including the guy I bought from who was a pretty sharp cookie actually. I got quite the sweet deal on that rifle and it just so happened that my smith had a 30-30 throating reamer.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
I have the NOE311-166 RD/GC with TL-grooves, it is one of the bullets I plan to use. Naked bullets seems to fit very well, but PC shortens the possible COL to the degree I have no crimping option. Hence, the idea to test the hydrodip- concept, coating only bearing surface. Or just shoot them tumble lubed :)
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Tried some powder coated sledgehammers today, in two different rifles, with a few different loads. Sized .309, with 0,001in neck tension. Accuracy in the Howa .308 is still not particularily overwhelming, but things are moving along in the right direction. The last shot (red icon) was a called flier.
AFCDF0C2-5C44-4D2A-9B97-15FCDAF61F6A.jpeg

The S&L 30-06 seems to like this bullet. This n110- loads seems to be quite good

8D49E808-6240-4880-95D5-58CE7485ACB5.jpeg

I will certainly shoot these PC bullets more. The sledgehammer is a fun little bullet! And while it is no big game bullet, of course, I’m most certain a red fox would consider itself sufficiently sledgehammered by this load.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ian

popper

Well-Known Member
Spin- look at the #134 in 'started with BO' thread. My version of the RD 30/30 mould. Tried many versions of his design, including his original for Marlin. This works better (they are tumble PC). That target is just me sitting with front sandbags, having fun. The nose can be a problem, just let it have a little jump and problem goes away. These seated just enough not to jam at all. I have a PB - same design that works as well for the light 16gr 2400 load. I did experiment with using a washer to 'nose' size a small part of the ogive so it aligns with the bore better - it did improve accuracy - but is kinda a PITA - so I just do it for max loads. The 041 mould has an attempt for the ridge but leaves a lot of 'reduced' dia. in the freebore. The lever of the Marlin is the bolt 'lug' so I don't like jamming.
Was reading Ian's notes on static/dynamic fir last nite. Agree with most but need to add that we make this perfect (?) ammo then cycle it through the gun. How much does the neck/nose get damaged? Even in a bolt gun the mags have lips for a reason. As an additional thought - I slugged my 40sw long time ago. Noticed the 'fingers' at the lube grooves were different on the sides of the bullet. Hmm. Pounded in crooked? Probably. Static fit of the case in the chamber! Food for thought. So maybe just a primer and a grain of powder and recover the bullet - look at the base and lube grooves/ rifling groves? Not full power but gives an idea of dynamic 'fit'.